S1 E6 – Does Absinthe Increase Creativity?

The Pistache Podcast – S1 E6 – Does Absinthe Increase Creativity? Can Absinthe make you more Creative, or are Creative people just more likely to try Absinthe? Nick & Jamie do some research into studies on this subject, and also add some of their own experiences into the mix. Like everything else in life, it seems like Absinthe has it’s good and bad sides.

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S1 E6 – Does Absinthe Increase Creativity?- Podcast Video

S1 E6 – Does Absinthe Increase Creativity?- Podcast Transcript

This transcript of the Pistache Podcast #6 Does Absinthe Increase Creativity has been generated using artificial intelligence, so it’s not perfect at this point, but we think this transcript is getting a lot better already. Let us know what you think?

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Welcome back to our podcast. Are going to be talking about absence and creativity in this Episode 6. Really, the main question that we’re going to be talking about is why of all the alcohols, is absinthe connected to creativity? Whereas in general kind of linking in from previous podcasts, you often hear about cannabis and other drugs seem to have more of a link and you don’t often hear about alcohol in general having a link with creativity, although absinthe does seem to come up as we’re going to delve into it. We’re going to find out about especially a certain era of R an artists, writers, poets.

Lots of artistic practices are all linked, iconic partly to this particular dream. So, I mean, really, I guess the first thing we have to get into is what actually is absinthe. So absinthe is often in French called Lafave out, which is translated to the Green Fairy. It’s actually a spirit rather than liqueur because there’s no sugar in it, which is basically, you know, like a kind of definition of what what’s the difference between a spirit and a liqueur? Apparently it cures have sugar in them when you’re making them. And it comes from Switzerland. It was actually invented around the late 17 hundreds by a Swiss doctor as a quote unquote, all purpose medical Alexia. So it was actually really more a medicine originally. And so it was, like I said, invented and started first getting produced in the late 70s, hundreds. So it is basically an alcoholic beverage made up of three main components. The first and most important kind of key component is something called wormwood, often referred to in particular for absinthe as grand wormwood.

Now, wormwood, the actual chemical, would you say chemical? Name the Latin? I guess it would be.

Ah, Tim, mishear absinthe. That is basically the key ingredient, alongside with two others. The other two green anise and sweet fennel. And then there’s another mix of kind of herbs, which I think can be fairly vary depending on the time and when it was made and everything like that. I mean, basically the actual absinthe itself, why it’s called the Green Fairy as it has this particular green color and that green color is basically a natural extract of wormwood, hence the name, the color and everything like that.

A lot of the shittier stuff I’ve seen seems to be like turquoise blue, lots of color. And so I know where we used to buy this up in the mountains just crossing over the border into Spain. And it was always like a really dark green, deep color. A lot people when they come visit is down here that always take bottles back for their friends or sometimes I think people who’ve been selling it to bars in the UK because absent those stupid expensive down here, well, just over the border in Spain, you could actually buy it and it wasn’t expensive at all.

And I think that’s probably the real the real staff here, because you see it, funnily enough, and we’re kind of going to get into it’s kind of it’s got a long history of basically kind of being banned in lots of places and everything like that. But funnily enough, like the U.K. and Spain to places where it’s never been banned, whereas France, it was banned, Switzerland, it was banned. We’re actually kind of the places where actually came from. It was also banned in the US. It seemed like it was banned in a lot of places. But like I said, funnily enough, the U.K. and Spain are two places, whereas Spain, I guess maybe just even with it being and having natural border with France might be a reason why it kept a more authentic thing. And actually, funnily enough, in northern Spain rather than in southern, seems to be where the most famous distilleries were, Catalonia in particular. And probably, you know, the pay Basque, where we would have gone to get it was a kind of especially back in those days, had a little bit more of that lawless kind of connotations and, you know, history and that kind of thing. Whereas like you said in the UK and I think really, especially after the initial ban, it kind of disappeared and just became less popular. So even though it wasn’t banned, I think drinking absinthe seemed kind of. Here in the early nineteen hundreds, which is around when it was banned. And so I think there was probably just for this almost the sake of drinking air or that kind of thing, these artificial colors and stuff, which even nowadays is very common. Yeah.

Apparently I haven’t drunk some for quite a long time and I used to find when I drink I get just ridiculous like dehydration and muscle aches the next day. I mean I could be to do with involving it. I don’t even get me drunk and not smoke weed at the same time.

That’s interesting. You know, that’s a funny thing as well, which when we get into the whole connections with creativity, you’ll see that not surprisingly, a lot of these creative people were doing all the drugs at the same time, depending on the drug, depending on the place, depending on the era. Even actually getting banned had connotations with other alcohols and consumption with other alcohol, strangely enough. So there is a lot of that. I mean, it’s funny when you say about the aches and stuff. This is one of the other. This is like kind of the main difference if we’re just going purely on a chemical clinical comparison of the two between absinthe and other alcohols. Is that basically absinthe traditionally is about 70 percent alcohol? Yeah, that’s a lot of alcohol. That’s that’s 140 per year. People talk about proof. Yeah, that’s 140 proof. And if you think in general, again, whiskey, vodka, other spirits and other strong alcohols are kind of anywhere from 70 to 100. Gin isn’t too strong. The absinthe is literally twice as strong. And those are considered generally the strong alcohol.

So, you know, just the consumption, dehydration because of alcohol, all of those things, it makes you think my s more bladder and I mean, not the leaders of big drinkers, but I pretty much drink rum and coke once a week and the rest of me couldn’t drink any alcohol. So, yeah, I have three or four and the bottles I get between 35 to 45 percent alcohol. So, yeah. So roughly 70 to 90 percent proof. You can definitely feel the difference.

I mean, that’s the main thing I think, because again, as we kind of talk about it, we’ll talk about certain chemicals and certain things that are far found in some of the ingredients that may have the actual connections with Y or possibly Y, you know, it might have connections with kind of these creative people. Yes. Really, the whole kind of trend kicked off basically by French troops being prescribed it to prevent malaria.

We were thinking possibly that it’d be similar to the cannabis and creativity thing. It’s almost a similar question is, does taking absinthe make you more creative or again, is it that more creative, open minded people, are they more likely to try absinthe?

Yes, that’s definitely there’s a there’s that whole kind of aura about that era and drinking apps in and like I said, even the name of the Green Fairy and stuff. It’s definitely. Yeah. It’s got this kind of a different mystique to it. The other alcohols again just don’t have.

And it seemed like it might. Well once we get into the actual artists or like painters and I say artists, it seems like it’s more connected with writers, poetry, people who probably were in the same circles where the weed thing I mean smoking weed in general. I imagine if you take 100 people out, especially nowadays who’ve tried weed or CBD or some of that, if you said to a hundred people said how many of you tried absinthe? I’m guessing A B, super low. Yeah. Unless you go back to like where we live on what, Watford High Street where it’s probably like 100 percent have done it at the last thing.

Yeah. And then puked outside afterwards.

I mean it is kind of like I said it because it was banned and then the ban got lifted in actual facts in the places where the bands got lifted i.e. France and the US and stuff. It’s actually pretty recent. You’re kind of you’re looking at kind of the early 2000s really is around when I think France 2011, even states 2007. So it’s actually quite a recent thing. And I don’t know really, I guess like you say, that maybe it’s just our age, the fact that we don’t really go out much into bars and stuff. I don’t know if there’s any kind of like a big resurgence of it.

I mean, you know, there’s always like this craft gin shit going on, an empire kind of big on their whiskeys. And yet while so quite light rum is you can get a really good quality rum way cheaper than you can. A good quote evoke always whiskey, especially whiskey. So pretty much all those other spirits, like they get quite expensive.

I wonder whether that’s got to do with where it gets produced and stuff to a certain extent. You know, just because it’s a more light, maybe, you know, just the monetary value because it’s more Latin Central American. Yeah, probably rum.

And the fact that other things are maybe more European whiskey and vodka and possibly even that gin with the states that might have had, you know, a lot of times a band stuff just based on like trade embargoes and countries I don’t like and I know how to fix behind it. Yeah, there’s always politics. I don’t know whether absinthe would be the case, but I like some friends of ours. They’re always one of them is from Guatemala. And he was whenever he came over here, he was just jamming down the chariot. So in all the cured pork products, he said in America, there are certain restrictions. I couldn’t get it or he could get and getting the actual the real good stuff. You know, maybe you guess Uncle Jared Sybase is not nothing like a real Spanish. Spain sticks in my mind because they’ll always like they’re big on exporting crappy wine and keeping it in goods and then they’re not as well known. Wines of some other countries, he may be, you know, I don’t know whether Italians are French, whether they keep in the good stuff, but getting exports of Spain’s really pretty well known for keeping all the good stuff and definitely saturate. So you go there and you get things you little you can.

You’d never even see it anywhere in the UK, literally for someone like me who lives Banksy on the border. Just look at what I can get in the shops in France and in Spain. It’s like I’m on the board, like literally on the border. And it’s a world apart like Europe.

So it’s not even getting into the ham. Hope you like.

And the America Pata Negra. I mean. Yeah. And even still, you know, even when you get into that. The difference between even within Spain. Yeah. So I like northern Spain. Yeah. You can get Pata Negra and you can get good America ham. But if you actually go around Salamanca yet where it’s from, which I remember vividly travelling down there and it was just like another whole like mind opening experience.

I think that with those things you still get that hole where it hits your other senses, because round here we get like a cheese which you can get and taste like Waitrose in the UK and I’ve seen it in Malaysia, for example, called preppy. Yeah, just like a used milk cheese. And it comes from a really specific valley so near us. But if you’re anywhere near round that valley and when they used when they actually start eating the grass, wherever the chewing thing, you can just smell the cheese everywhere around you. And I’m sure attacking a census like that. And if you’re eating cheese in that valley with the whole all the other senses and all the other things, it’s obvious it’s a combination here and you’re not travelling as well.

And on top of that, when you go to those places, you’re probably not gonna go to the supermarket and buy it. You’re literally going to go not only to a small place, but probably direct to the producer. Yeah. For show, like you say. And in turn, getting just better. Yeah. It’s just getting better. But the whole experience, the environment, the smell, the there’s like a farm next to it.

There may be someone else like their cousin or something. Set up a shop next door that sells it. You go there and buy it. That’s sort of the most middleman you’re going to kind of get.

And I think so with absinthe as well. You obviously we always used to a we always generally smoking weed with that and just getting crazy. So we’re just like, yes, we can get out the bottle here. It’s not advisable. Yeah. So a lot of times people were putting it on over the glass. Sugar in the spoon. Yeah. And then were the.

Well I I remember basically and this would have been around the early 2000s which would be in kind of timing with this slight resurgence, especially in Catalonia.

I remember being in Barcelona for an art trip and I was with one of our teachers. They’re more like travel buddies. But wherever I went out with him and we mount with an old friend of his who was actually English, but he’d been teaching art in Spain in like an art school in Barcelona. And I remember vividly going and having a couple of glasses of absinthe. And so it’s something called an absinthe spoon. It’s like a slotted spoon, essentially. You can imagine you got your glass.

It’s like a flat spoon that’s got holes in it. You put that on top and you put the issue the cube on it, right? Yeah. When I was kind of looking at it, it said in general you would drip ice cold water onto the ice cube and the sugar cube. Sorry. Which would then in turn drip down. Yeah. Once you’ve drips and dosed it as you want. Yeah. So I see you’re mixing a bit of iced water with it. That’s important. But that’s been sweet and slimy. Once you like, you mix it up so you take the top off, give it a shake or swirl or something and then you start drinking it at that point. But it’s always whatever happens apparent. It’s always been traditionally drunk with water. My recollections of it and this might be because I was remembering after having drunk a couple absence, I thought I was burning the sugar or melting the sugar somehow.

You’re thinking about smoking crack.

So I’ve got no idea. But I do remember vividly this spoon sugar cube. Yeah. And somehow melting the sugar into it in my head. Maybe just the idea of melting. I mean, what you can do, get a lighter out and start burning sugar. That would make it better. That probably wouldn’t.

Right. Obviously, Nick’s not a crack smoker.

Yeah, but you know, I was thinking there’s that just thinking about Travolta in Pulp Fiction or Menace to Society. You know, at that time, we’re probably watching a lot of things. The only other thing you’re seeing with people doing bad things are spoons is generally, I think some kind of some kind of burning me, I think. Yeah. But then I think possibly that might be tied into there are other alcohols. May you then you do burn it to burn off some of the alcohol like that Greek wine or something flaming. Sam Lucas, Sam Braddock. Disgusting. I’ll give a shout out to Kai actually on that one if you’re listening.

Kai, you made me real sick off at home one day and I’ve never drank one since.

Shout out.

So wherever that shitty bar is, it’s an open service everywhere, like 15. Do you feel like coffee beans and our sign and lame lines? But yeah.

So it’s basically the essential thing is mixing it with water. But I think also sweetening it because obviously those three ingredients, I mean, you know, no one’s tried worm would you know. But like basically other than that, the anise. See? Fennel is that kind of licorice she kind of flavor. So it’s quite bitter flavors. So that’s obviously where the sugar comes into it.

You know, like alcohol, like in my mind, I have sort of had to say good memories of absinthe. Sort of romantic being young and doing crazy shit. Well, when you say mixing with water, that’s making me thinking about shit I really hate like Ricard Pastiche, which of course I got that similarly A.C. flavor just well for drinking. That’s just disgusting.

Funnily enough, when absinthe was banned because it was so popular, the French troops got prescribed it as a medicine but got a real taste for it. They brought it back and then it just like it just took off like crazy. People just loved the flavor of it, particularly in France and particularly in the Paris region, apparently. So you’re looking at like late eighteen hundreds. It’s gets crazy mass production, which is then going to kind of lead into the more cultural and artistic thing, whether it’s and this is what you were saying, whether it’s kind of just by chance that the timing of this drink and this cultural and artistic movement or whether it had something to do with pushing this cultural and artistic movement, the fact that people were drinking it or whether there was this movement and there was this drink.

And the more arty bohemian, because it is kind of that you often hear about this word bohemian being referred to this kind of you know, we’re basically looking at like late 18 hundreds, early.

Nineteen hundreds is when all these artists and poets were around. So that’s the actual particular time. And it’s this bohemian, maybe counter-culture kind of movement. You know, that’s why I think it’s often referred to as bohemian. It doesn’t have anything to do with like other aspects of bohemian, like kind of the almost the gypsy travelling lifestyle doesn’t really have much to do with that Bohemian Grove where the Illuminati are making weird sacrifice. I guess bohemian covers. Yeah, it’s quite a broad. Yeah. Exactly. So that’s what I was saying. It’s more this kind of counterculture. But this is the funny thing is that like you said, it’s like it did seem to really take off high society artists, low society, poor people. Seems like everyone was drinking in France at a certain time.

So was that then the birth of those record and passages?

And that’s why I was going to say is that what were the birth of them was when they got banned. Most of these artists and most these movements and these things happened. The monks like maybe 20 to 30 year period. Yeah. So you’re looking at around like probably 1910, 1915, where not only did all of these kind of cultural and artistic movements, you know, they’re not included within this so-called LA absence culture, but that’s also when it got banned. And there’s several things which, again, kind of relate in some ways maybe to some of the cannabis elements of why cannabis got banned as well. Access. There’s there’s a certain amount of ideas that because it was so popular, because people were liking it so much. And who knows what else is that? There was kind of smear campaigns. They say, say, take France, for example.

It got banned in 1914. But a lot of people theorize that it was a smear campaign from the French wine industry because it was starting to take hold and becoming more and more popular and eating into their industry, which was already at that point, obviously a huge industry. There’s elements like that which are kind of similar to cannabis in some ways, you know, where it’s kind of being smeared by government or maybe there’s money or capitalistic or who knows what kind of things behind it. The other thing is that the first place it got banned is actually where it was invented, which is Switzerland. So you’re looking a few years before around, I think 19 away or something like that. And basically, this farmer murdered his own family and apparently he drank absinthe. And that’s what they used as a again.

Were they looking for an excuse because gave him a moment of clarity and thought like this? But what is generally thought is that he was like is that he was drunk on wine, brandy, and then he had like a glass or two of absinthe and then killed his family. So is it the absence or is it the fact that he was just dead drunk and absinthe was one of the drinks that you drunk or just bought nothing to do with statutory rape. And yeah, exactly. Lost it and killed his family. But there’s definitely seems to be some kind of thing of an issue with it gaining popularity. So that could be on the business side of things from the wine producers. But also it seems like it kind of has this thing which also is similar to the cannabis stuff, which you see when you watch documentaries about cannabis. It was freeing people up and like with the cat, with the cannabis stuff, they say, oh, you can go home and have sex or Jesus, stuff like that. I think there was similar sort of stuff and connotations to get into an interracial relation. Exactly. Those kinds of things which apparently would have been frowned upon. So because so many French people were drinking record is basically absent without the one would make sense. And they thought that the world was the problem. And this is kind of something that we’re going to get into this.

This is why I kind of made a point, not only because the Latin name is actually the connotation with the name absinthe and what makes it green and then the Green Fairy and the legendary status and the name and all of those things. But also there’s a chemical. Extracted or an ad can be extracted from Wormwood, it can actually also big abstracted from other things that need to be saying Sage in Oregon. Yeah, that’s right. Yeah. So it is present in quite a lot of herbs and I think is actually quite high. Higher presence and other things other than the chemicals called fusion, as I do shown here. I mean I don’t really know how you pronounce that, but it’s T H you j o and A. So Joan here this chemical, basically it’s only present in absinthe because of the Wormwood Wormwood. And basically, you know, like absinthe has this kind of connotations with these kind of infamous hallucinogenic psychoactive lot of things that you don’t hear about with other alcohols. And then in turn, this is where it kind of turns into the creativity kind of elements where you don’t often necessarily hear anything about specifically alcohol with that relate related to artistic and creativity. It generally is more like what we said, cannabis and other drugs, even whether it be opioids or whatever, you know, and certainly LSD, acid, all those kinds of things, whereas you don’t often hear about it.

And I mean, there’s several elements basically to this chemical which may or may no pending on, you know, who you listen to, different scientific things being proved disproved over time. Is that basically I mean, one thing which apparently was disproved in a lot of people don’t really believe this is that apparently it’s actual sort of structure of the actual molecule or I don’t know. Again, we hit the bro science here is molecules sounds very similar to THC. So this was thought of a lot and I think this was talked a lot about in like the kind of 70s and stuff when obviously lots of ganja, lots of LSD, lots of mind altering things. But apparently this has been disproved time and time again. So i.e. even though it might have a similar molecular structure or something. Apparently the actual effects of it are nothing like THC, the main thing that you hear about.

And I mean, this seems to be the main thing and this is something that people have actually been able to scientifically prove, is that basically the combination of all these different herbs and plants and stuff they’re made is that the drink? Basically simultaneous, simultaneous simultaneously. And that’s the one acts as like a stimulant and a sedative.

So normally, if I’ve got this right and I’m sure I probably don’t have this right, is the alcohol’s more of a sedative on the on your actual central nervous system. When I was reading about it, if I can remember. Right, is the alcohol has more of like a kind of. Yes. Sedative. So it’s kind of like it has an effect where it kind of. How would you explain to Central? No, me, it doesn’t stimulate. It does the opposite almost stimulate in your system? I don’t know the person. Yeah, exactly. It’s known it’s a clinical depression is a downer. Yeah. If you could just really put it into very simple things. And this is the thing is that in particular this do Joan is more of a stimulant in a similar way to what we were talking about THC. So it’s kind of like this combination which you don’t have in any other alcoholic beverage, apparently. Where because of this chemical in it, you’ve got an upper and a downer. And so people refer to this kind of infamous effects of it as actual absence theism rather than alcohol ism, you know. And most people are saying that it’s more of like an awakening sensation. So it’s obviously more of like a you hear the word lucid used a lot. Awakening dream like, you know, where you’re like you’re you’re drunk, but you’re not sloppy. You know, you’re not like losing your senses. Your senses are kind of getting heightened at the same time as you get drunk. So it’s this combination, you know, I’ve had.

I mean, I guess the something maybe be similar to that is where people, you know, like. I mean, I’m seeing everywhere, like vodka. Red Bull. Right. Exactly. Here they’re doing a similar thing. But I found that by not I was a big drinker. A shout out to judo, Dan, one of the only times ever went out actually on Watford High Street or the few times that I think I was with him. Go to some bar Monday night, 10 vodka, red bulls for like two pounds or something. And then I remember walking home. In my mind was like, totally okay here. Then I realized I was like, I think I’m also possibly the most fucked up I’ve ever been on alcohol.

It definitely gets weird place, doesn’t it? Yeah. Because I mean, like you said, is it? I mean often for example, if back when I was smoking I could smoke and drink, but I couldn’t drink and smoke if I drank mints might if I got drunk and then smoked joint, I’d be sick. Yeah. No two ways about it. Whereas I could smoke a fair bit, but then drink. But I always thought that my bro science logic was that I never get sick of smoking and I can get sick of it. Just drinking. Yeah. So maybe the problem was is that when I did the drinking then smoking, I do a lot of drinking. And then any amount of smoking would kick off. Whereas when I did the smoking I would never actually get really drunk i.e. I don’t think personally I would then go and drink like just loads of alcohol. I probably more do just like a few glasses or being myself who bears. Yeah. And I just always thought it was maybe that.

So there’s that whole thing and I don’t know if other people I had similar experiences.

When we talk about abstinence, you remember we had a craze, I think like we had a few weeks in a row where we brought it back from Spain. Yeah.

So we brought back this good absinthe from Spain back to the UK when we were still living back in London.

Yeah. And also tying into a couple of previous and future episodes is actually I don’t think is really pre whatever. But at that point all the guys who came say things. We all had girlfriends over Amazon like relationships. So it was like think both times. Bizarrely, there’s four guys and four girls, all of whom were friends within. We’re all smoking weed and drinking absinthe.

They’re not going to name everyone who is there in case in case they’re teachers. Auditions, which are they?

They are a definite member, some crazy, crazy, nice doing both those things. But again, I think most of us, you know, you’re like, right, let’s smoke two or three joints, maybe two or three shots of absinthe. And you’re like, I’m good. Like, check, please. I’d like more than one. One of our friends, he was trying to impress a girl and he man, he wasn’t in a relationship.

And he happened to be almost that he was the one dude. And there was a friend of your wife now who who was also single.

So we all had a few shots out of a full bottle and then smoked a few big fatties. And he had like a real sort of monologue skill, I think is what you’d call it. And he I think I feel like it might have been an hour or so and it felt like he did about three hour monologue. Everyone else. The best thing you’ve ever seen. Just watched. Yeah. It’s like watching to see Groucho Marx or Mike Tyson on stage talking and or Martin Short Spring. I feel like he drank the rest of a half bottle of absinthe just on his own after shooting some and smoking as a to feel like he might then being really, really sick and then maybe actually go together, you guys together and maybe go together with the girl. Maybe.

I mean, there’s definitely this thing of like this is kind of where a lot of the debate comes in. Like, so is it this upper and downer kind of combination or is it just the fact that it’s just crazy high alcohol? So i.e. you get into that and some people talk about this realm of light, basically alcohol poisoning, you know, where you’re and I think a lot of people could probably relate to this where it’s before it’s that it’s almost that twilight period where you’re crazy drunk, but you’re feeling great just before you realize you’re going to be sick. Yeah. You know, which is obviously the actual body reacting to alcohol poisoning. So it’s that kind of you know, that’s also the other thing that the debate is just. Is it just because it’s just so crazily strong and nothing to do with this extra I guess that people are then watering it down and sugaring it up.

It’s not like we’re we’re just. So, again, it’s straight out of the bottle as a kind of nature.

If you if you, for example, pour over half the amount of water. Yeah. I mean, say say, for example, like, you know, there’s all types of famous people. One of the most famous is Hemingway. So Hemingway had a novel called Death in the Afternoon and he actually made a cocktail called Death in the Afternoon as well.

Kind of I don’t know if it was before off the weather that I’m guessing that probably actually was more the impetus for writing the novel. But he basically would get so a show of absence and then he’d get like literally ice cold champagne. So it would have to be as cold as possible pre it actually becoming ice. And he’d basically he’d just like drip in. Yeah. So no sugar in his. He’d drip in until it got this kind of this milk keenness without seeing the champagne in the champagne into the absinthe bit by beer. And his basically quote is drink three to five of these slowly in the afternoon. So that was his kind of you know, that was his whatever his idea of and it was called death in the afternoon and it was specifically something to do in the afternoon rather than evening.

So he’d be one of those people who doesn’t have a huge to do list. Maybe this might have been later in life for him.

I don’t know yet. I mean, he. Funnily enough, he’s a really interesting person because most of the people were actual actually Europeans. When you see when we go through it, virtually all of them are French.

More often than not.

There’s a few other artists that come into it, but they’re almost all Europeans, almost all the famous absinthe drinkers. Others include being in Paris and or people. Yeah. Exactly. Whereas I don’t know. I mean, I don’t even know when Hemingway was alive. I mean, maybe I should have probably had a look at that. I know. What I was gonna say, though, is that I in my head, Hemingway is a bit later than that might be totally wrong. But I know that, on the other hand, he came across absence in Spain, in Catalonia in particular. So this is why him being a kind of slightly outside, he. All the same is what you said, is that he still had this thing, whether he was right there in that bohemian period. I don’t think so. But it was him going in Spain. The fact that it was in that area is still a popular Irish drink. It was the old one of the only places, because it seems like absinthe really got replaced. And this is another thing which is interesting with creativity is that it got replaced through the 20th century by other drugs.

Yeah. You know, like. Steadily, a lot of the stuff we’ve talked about, you know, so with Hemingway as well.

There’s obviously there’s a cocktail called a Hemingway, which is I read a glass of champagne with a shot of absinthe on the top. I really I’ve had a bunch of those. Yeah. I thought I was asking you if you’re dripping in.

Well, you see, I would imagine then that’s probably just like a take. I think the proper cocktail here is exactly the real connoisseur is going to have a death in the afternoon, start with the thing and pour in a similar set like what you said when you’re mixing the water in to pasta. So, Ricardo, wherever he talks about this kind of milky, opaque kind of thing and just getting that right kind of color and that’s where, you know, to stop sort of saying stupid thing about this.

I mean, obviously, we’re talking about creativity. But what’s funny with a lot of artists is there’ll be writers out there who are literally going to star or have already tried doing Hemingway’s making this in the afternoon. So I think they’ll start writing like Hemingway. Do you like doing writing us? And I think a lot of the creativity, I mean, especially things will get NC further down the line. But a lot of times people are asking all these really creative people or how do you do this or how do you do that? I think they if they duplicate any of these pre writing or pre painting rituals or any things, they are somehow going to get become creative or get any of their flow of personal thought. We almost can hear them. And then what you realize is what I like with, say, Tim Ferriss podcast. At times you asked what is the beginning of your daily life? And what you realize is, I mean, a lot of people, to be fair and up on that day, meditation seems to be a theme that’s quite, quite prevalent. But at times some people like I get up and I look on my phone straight away or I don’t like my phone straight away or I go for walks right away or have a cup of tea. And everyone just has tell you if things or I don’t have a ritual to do it. But you are thinking, you know, some people will be thinking they’re gonna write like Hemingway by doing so.

And that kind of ties in with this whole thing of like, is it going to make you creative? Is it in your mind, again, to make you creative? A little bit like what we were talking about and what we really thought with the cannabis. Yeah. And and what not unlike say I mean. Well, I mean, we’re obviously right in the middle of it, but everything seems to point towards all of these kinds of things. I mean, there’s no as far as I’m concerned, medicine that’s gonna make you creative. It’s more about this kind of thing of our creative people more drawn towards it, or is it going to kind of maybe have some kind of a beneficial effect possibly on your creativity? But I think it’s more in your mind than anything else. You know, I don’t think we’re gonna find anything structurally or scientifically based.

It’s really like if I like again, this is going embrace science fully. But say if you take something like cocaine, I don’t think there’s anything is anything in the cocaine that actually puts things in your brain. I think it’s a trigger when I, um, blocks certain things that are blocking certain chemicals from being produced. So all it does is just alter the way that chemicals are produced in your brain. So it’s something like cocaine. I think a lot of these things are the same kind of efforts across the board for all drug kinds of I don’t know if we were talking about it again in the previous podcast or whether it’s certainly something we wanted to talk about.

The day empty in the ayahuasca where it’s like it’s it triggers something that’s already inside you. Yeah. You got these in you. It’s like it’s it’s like a trigger for releasing it. Whereas normally to release it, these other things or these things have to happen and people have found a way to kind of take something and trigger it.

Yeah, exactly. These things just then either something inside you have released or suppress things. And what happens in your brain is you get different mixes to what would happen naturally. So they like process inhibitors and effects. That’s definitely doesn’t sound very scientific.

This is sound science sounds kind of right, but it’s probably totally wrong. Yeah. If this is like for someone who is in science, probably sounds ridiculous, but for us it sounds good and maybe our listeners just out of interest. Yet having Hemingway, it was like we said, he was born 1899. So he’s basically born on the dawn of the 20th century and died like in the 60s or something like that. So he was a little bit later. And this is why even though he was into it, it was because of his specific travels to Spain. He wasn’t connected with the whole. He was too young to be connected, but the whole bohemian kind of artistic movement.

But then he came over, got inspiration from from that. And, you know. I mean, it’s different. Every generation inspires the next. I guess it’s different now with the Internet. But say, when we were younger, when I look at did a school exchange, I went to school in New York for a mom, came back with all these hip hop cities from the mid 90s that you can necessarily get your hands on as easily. And then although even like basketball was all these things, you had to just go there, get it, bring it back, sort of ingest it. And our friend Ali went over to the West Coast around that summer time, came back with the broader and more West Coast stuff where you just didn’t have it in your hands very often. And I think obviously, if you go back to like Hemingway or a lot of our American friends, they say they’re coming over to Europe, which we find is a bit of a crazy they think it’s almost like the United States of Europe, like you go on vacation to Europe, where there’s so much diversity from, say, where our families in Finland to go into like Portugal or something, you know, like, you know, another world. Yeah. But I mean, it is really different. It’s not. Next thing we’ll ever see, if you come over to Europe, especially that time, you’re going to go back to America with a lot of influences. I haven’t been for sure.

It’s definitely an interesting one. Like looking at it from from those kinds of points of view. I mean, like we said, this something like absinthe in particular is a specifically European thing, like where we were talking about cannabis. It has when you start going into the actual origins of it, it basically takes you to India or takes you outside of it, whereas this is a specifically European phenomenon. I mean, you know, we were talking about Hemingway. To be honest, I think probably writers and poets a lot of the time have more of a connection with absinthe than actual artists. I mean, there are pieces of all that are iconic, like light, like Ed, while Manet, like the absinthe drinker or Picasso has one as well, where it’s a lady drinking absinthe. So there are some very iconic things.

I think you know as well when I like when I was ill and I then was forcibly had to stop smoking, smoking weed, and then I was thinking we discussed a bit about whether I would feel less creative or not. Then when I start to get better after a year where I started drinking a little bit more just to feel like a normal person, a bit not substance wise, but just culturally, I could go out for a beer or know and then I started drawing again, but drinking a few beers and then started drawing. And for me, my drawing of my art style is quite loose anyway. So I was like, I should mention knockout love. Are I really quit the drink and a few beers or a few rounds, drinks my beer and then but then I stopped doing aftershocks as like what I really need to do. This is just sort of an interesting thing I went through. But what I found is if maybe your style of art is kind of loose, then alcohol might be a thing. If you’re trying to do technical drawing or anything like that, it’s not going to. I can’t imagine it making you focus or anything, but possibly writing, you know, you don’t hear about like artists or painters block as much as you hear about writer’s block.

You know, I suppose maybe that’s the reason, the kind of help. Like we were saying, almost ignite something in them that would stop them, that would inspire them in some way. Yeah. Or it’s just like a I mean, it’s funny you say that takeoff of a plane because by chance, you know, like like we said, when we’re dealing with that era and all of these artists and writers basically just just to stay.

Again, we’re looking at the very last sort of 10 to 20 years of the eighteen hundreds and the beginning of the nineteen hundreds. And it’s often kind of referred to the the light, obviously the art movements at the time.

So it’s no surprise, but the absence had and kind of shaped surrealism, modernism, impressionism, cubism, you know, these are all movements that happen within those kind of 30 or 40 years.

And that falls exactly into what you’re just talking about. Yeah. Because all of those kind of movements of are were kind of breaking stuff down and slide in and kind of getting into abstraction and replacing the colors you see without the colors and colors feeling in you and all of that kind, I guess you get.

You know, I mean, it’s expressionism being more expressive or expressing yourself. Yeah, less of an impressionism is what your impression of things.

So both of those that say instead of just trying to match the color like so a tit for tat or something, you’re actually what is this color look like to me. What does it make me feel like. What does it. And then trying to represent that in a painting.

Yeah. Yeah. A lot of those art styles could have really coincided with.

And funnily enough that green color is present in a lot of artwork from that era. So that the actual specific green because it is quite specific green like you said, it’s not dark turquoise or anything, it’s a very almost earthy green. Not surprisingly, it comes from a plant extract, but it’s also quite vivid.

At the same time, it’s not it’s not colors like really deep green, but it has like a lot. It’s like a really if you’re getting slightly technical, it’s very pigmented. There’s like a lot of pigment in it. Yeah, it’s like dark with a lot of pigment in it. But it has like a sort of slight luminosity I guess when you’re talking about a liquid as well that gets into paint the whole luminosity in. Yeah. So it plays a part as well doesn’t it.

Yeah. I mean like I said, you know it’s like all of the artists like it influence apparently Picasso. And I mean it’s part of his paintings of women drinking, absinthe, that kind of thing. Modigliani de. We already said about Manet Van Gough is one of the people that even people who aren’t into all. Everyone knows Van Gough and everyone knows he cut his ear off famously, apparently cut his ear off or whatever. This is going to take us down like another kind of pathway, which you kind of see. And there’s gonna be a couple of writers I’ll talk about in a sec as well who have the same connection. And it kind of relates to some of the stuff we mentioned in the cannabis thing, whereas it seems to start off well and then it becomes very negative and really becomes a problem. So, I mean, whether he was whether he cut his ear off or not because of absence. Who knows? I tried to look into it and it didn’t seem to be anything that proved it was an accident.

Is there people saying it could of. Yeah, there’s people saying it could have. But there’s one quote in particular. This is a quote that I found of his. And it says, It’s a certain fact that I’ve done better work than before.

And then there was dot, dot, dot, whatever. Since I stopped drinking. Yeah. So he feels, as far as I can tell, he was doing better work when he stopped drinking. Yeah. Then when he was drinking. It is definitely well known that. And amongst other artists, they were they kind of what we were talking about early, they kind of miss disguised absinthe and stuff, and they definitely were kind of saying as if it was an important influence on their work. Whereas further down the line, he’s saying that as far as I knew, he cut his ear off in later life. And it seems like in later life he wasn’t drinking anymore. Knock on effects.

I mean, who knows? You know, this kind of when you’re saying that that ties into that whole thing we talk about in, I think, episode 0 1 with the Bruce Lee and the sort of mastery thing where you could almost look at it as you have your pre drinking or taking smoking weed or whatever it is you have, you got your natural state where you have certain ability.

You’re maybe taking a substances, maybe your work’s not as good. I don’t know whatever you get too involved in it substance.

So taking over and you’re not producing very good work. And then if you can get out of it and you can have the experience of everything you gain from the substance, but almost go back to your pure state with the knowledge of that substance, maybe that’s the mastery and then maybe that’s when you can actually create you.

So it was almost maybe necessary, kind of in a strange way to go down the learning curve. Yes.

Like you were practicing martial arts, like you doing horse starts with punching for ages and and almost a little bit like what we’re saying in our podcast about White Men Can’t Jump. Yeah. About the learning more from the losing. Yeah. So you’re learning something because it’s almost degrading your work. If you’re learning a lot through that and then you’re taking it up somewhere out there as well. I mean that definitely falls into it. I mean, there’s another thing about it and what you were saying about earlier. I mean, in that era, lots of people were smoking opium. Everyone was Mike and opium. So did opium kind of have a across effect with the combined effect with it? Yeah, it seemed like in France as well, there was a fair bit of hash being smoked hash in particular, obviously. No, not we. And did that also the drinking and smoking. Exactly what we were talking about. I mean, for example, there’s a famous poet called the author Rambo who is from the same movement. And he was apparently like a heavy hash maker and a heavy drinker. This is quite interesting because it kind of ties into this whole like, is it, is it? And in what way is it making possibly someone creative? It is quite where he saw poetry is like alchemy, alchemy.

Alchemical and Banksy says it like a way of changing reality, kind of like what we were talking about with impressionism and stuff. Before that, there was a nice quote where it said a rational dis ordering of all the senses to create poetry, to create all. And that is it in some way required to take something to be able to disorder that the senses.

That was interesting. So that made me think about was when we’re actually talking about alchemy, there’s people who we have a sort of literal reading of all the alchemists work that they were literally trying to turn base metals into gold. That that was a literal thing. Well, what resonates more with me is that some people saying alchemy is almost like changing base metals and gold. But in your mind right now, it’s like more like a meditation thing, how to take your mind and basically achieve enlightenment at some point. There’s a whole thing where people are trying to turn base metals into gold. But is it like a metaphor or is it very literal? No. Where does that end? I mean, that’s possibly another conversation to have.

We mentioned the book The Alchemist. Yeah. And that does actually Power Coelho. But, you know, that’s kind of the main brunt of what it’s about. Like you said, it’s like right when you read it, you’re already reading about stuff and already kind of finding out what he’s kind of almost trying to explain. Yeah. But there’s quite a good one if people are interested in that aspect of things.

Once a famous book, you know, kind of massive on poetry in general. But when I like it, like I really like, you know, big fan John Cooper Clarke. My favorite is Jim Morrison. Yeah, I love Jim Morrison. I’m sure he was drinking absinthe. I’d be surprised if he can get his hands on it. But he’s obviously when you’re saying that a rational this ordering of the senses in a way, the way reality here, because when you listen to specifically poetry for that obviously and become song lyrics, it seems like especially Jim Morris, I feel like it’s so obvious that I feel like I could have written that, but I just could never. I don’t really have a talent for words, like I say, with a paintbrush. But I just don’t feel like I could ever do that. And someone else I feel like it’s a bit like that. I mean, it’s new work. I’m not that big on was like Frank Ocean. When he dropped the first album I was listening to, I was like, oh, man, that sounds like a bit like Jim Morrison.

And there was just something poetic, something really, I just think made you off somewhere.

I’m talking about like sort of the super rich kids and how their showerhead feels.

Amazing. Things are pretty sound energy and a certain elements of repetition within it, which you often see in poetry, which Sen. Jim Morrison sought out, and Frank Ocean as well. You know, like the.

Yeah, everybody goes into like a whole mantra style things and something interesting.

Cat as well. Yeah. Frank Ocean, he’s kind of funnily enough, you know, he’s kind of linked a lot with skate culture and a lot of skaters and stuff, which is quite odd. And then there’s all the stuff about his sexuality, which are mostly within the kind of urban music scene and that kind of thing is even though it’s like anything, there’s there’s going to be a certain amount of people that lean whichever way they do. But. To them being more open about that. Yeah.

You know, I feel like he dropped the album and then that was the every album Orange Year, was it? And everything else since then just seems to sound like that to me.

But not quite as if it was a game changer. Yeah, it was definitely like a kind of cultural game changer.

Whether he talked about other people, I’m sure, you know, like we’ve been saying in a lot of things, he’s probably stealing, borrowing and floating on the shoulders of other people’s work, which is fine. But then there’s one thing that gets out is so just everywhere influencing. I feel like that definitely for me changed like a whole generation of music where everything now listen to it. And like that sounds like Frank Ocean. Maybe not so good.

Yeah. Yeah. No, definitely not. You mean like you said, I’m not like a gigantic. I actually quite like on the other hand. And again, it’s something I didn’t like so much before his epic poems like Kali Vala, which, you know, is kind of from our origins and from Crayola and stuff. But that is a totally different ballgame. Yeah. I mean, that’s not you’re not going to be writing. Why? I actually say that, you know, going we write in California on absinthe. But for example, when the guy al-Islam wrote who wrote California, he went around Correia. And there was an oral tradition in like kind of finished Karelia in particular, which is where our mom’s from. And it would generally be two men for whatever reason. I’m sure women did it, too.

And they’d sit face to face and they’d start recounting like old poems, stories, but that were in that kind of poetry kind of basis, songs, stroke poetry. And they would hold hands and they’d look each other, but they’d apparently go into like a kind of alternate state. So what we’re doing at the moment here and they go into this alternate stay. And so all of that to say basically that, you know, you’d think of something like color value, where it’s more of an epic poem in that it’s more like storytelling in poetry, almost as a device kind of thing, but actually comes from something which was very mind altering as well. And they would get into a trance or myself and recount these things, you know, and he would listen to them, write it down and then made a book out of it. So, yeah, like you said, I kind of in general don’t think I’m much into poetry, but there’s actually loads of things that I like. Yeah, kind of poetic music.

Lyrics. Exactly. Right. Right. I mean, I think you can still say the difference between. Yeah. I mean it’s not the same thing as poetry. You don’t say. Part Jos has connections with like hip hop music, but it’s not the same first spoken word or the air.

That’s the kind of crossover of a mix between the two. But to be honest, it’s not my fault. Exactly. It’s.

Either you would connect it like everything’s connected based one’s still straight poetry.

You pick up a book, someone’s written poetry and you read it to me as poetry. Or if they’re still alive, maybe they can do it. Reading General is not my favorite art form, not super into that or the theater in general. When I do something, I really like it.

So yeah, I love the theater. Yeah, and I always have done.

I think I’m not massively into theatre people a lot of time because they can come off the stage and then they can still be exactly the same as they were on the stage. And a lot of times again, it’s when these things were a bit like the martial arts when you’re really good, they’re not doing that, but when you’re not very good and you think you might be quite good. I can’t I can’t do the low grade there to that song, to be sure. It’s gotta be really good.

I don’t I mean, I’d go to the theater. Would Isaac shout out to Isaac if you’re out there listening. Theater nights, me and him would go. It kind of became like a mystic kind of thing that we used to do. I mean, I won’t speak for him, whatever, but I was definitely blazing. And this is actually a funny thing is that if I went there and I hadn’t had a smoke, I didn’t enjoy it half as much as if I smoked a joint and then went in.

I loved the theater, but going down the route of what you were just saying, we were going in central London and watching my incredible theater, you know, watching Tom Stoppard. Watching. Yeah. Like not only incredible plays, but also by incredible actors in the iconic theatres like the whole environment. Exactly. All of those kind of things like the alma mater as well, anything from the Barbican, a big central one or the alma mater, which I think is like around Islington, that small old one, you know, the whole thing kind of played into it. So. Yeah. So definitely. I mean, the poet’s Oscar Wilde.

Oscar Wilde for me, like I did my I did for A-levels or English, French, English, literature, French and ah. And an English teacher actually specialised and my whole sort of long essay piece on Oscar Wilde. So I’ve written I’ve read everything he’s ever written.

Basically, I got a book that had the complete works and I was gonna say, when you don’t really like poetry as a poet, I know that you like. Yeah. Who’s actually just a straight up poet.

Well, I’d say he’s more like an author. I wouldn’t even say he’s a. Yeah. Right. She base for me. Saying as a writer you kind of short. Yeah.

He wrote poems but. Yeah. No I was I was just saying it more that he’s someone who actually wrote poems rather than musical lyrics or people you’re talking about. Jim Morrison and stuff. But yeah, true for sure. He wasn’t actually probably considered a poet. He was more of a writer I guess with the thing. I’m guessing he spent more time in London again. You’d probably know.

I think he died in Paris. Sydney. That’s why I think he’s more connected in the Paris scene.

So that’s why he’s one of these famous absinthe.

Yeah, right. I was going to say he connected more into the. French thing, really?

See, he was he was on the opium big time. Yeah, and I know that London and the reason I said about it is I know that London had a kind of iconic opium culture around that same sort of area. You know, you hear about the Sherlock Holmes guy and smoking in opium dens to kind of awaken his this and that as well, you know, so. So, yeah, I mean, there is a quote there’s a quote of Oscar Wilde saying, well, there’s not actually a quote, but this is someone who said that they said it to him. So it’s kind of like a secondhand thing of. Apparently, he had a sensation of having two lips brush against his legs after leaving a bar closing time after drinking absinthe. And I think this is actually from Paris from from from when he was in Paris. Drink an absinthe.

I think I was a lot of Socrates. He’s obviously Irish. And then the guy died in. I think he died. Yeah. Or even outside Chevalier. So. Yeah. Died in nineteen hundred in Paris. A newsboy, about 50 when I got 45 years old.

So he was by slap bang in the middle of you know, like nineteen hundred is almost the as he became one of London’s most popular playwrights in the 1896 London Paris.

I can see right here go around. Probably a bit of both. But then you know this what I’m saying is that this again is that opium at the same time. He was he. He’s a well known for his absence drinking, but he’s almost even more well-known for his opium smoking and the opioids and all of that kind of stuff. So they often seems like there’s a connection between all these absinthe drinkers. It seems like no one was just drinking absinthe. Yeah. You know, they were all smoking something at the same time or doing that kind of thing, which I mean, for sure in France. I mean, even nowadays, almost everyone smoke cigarettes. Back then, everyone would have been smoking cigarettes. And even cigarettes has a kind of high.

You know, obviously the tobacco and and all of the nicotine high along with drinking, which takes you down, you know, save even just something as simple as you could be smoking a cigarette and drinking alcohol. And you’re already playing with this. Yeah. What we’ve been talking about this up and down sort of effects or the vodka Red Bull or these two elements to absinthe and stuff. So but I guess the difference is, is going back to it again, is the absinthe actually has that in one drink. You don’t have to mix absinthe with anything. Whereas all these other things, you almost have to mix two things to get this up and down thing, which I think is kind of comes back to it once again, that this is what makes absinthe this iconic drink. And I think that this really, if we’re going to try and look at it in general is probably and this is probably we’re getting towards kind of wrapping it up really with this. Is that like this is really what creates this or differentiates, let’s say, absence from the rest of the alcohols, which is really what I was interested in when I went down the whole thing. Why absinthe compared to other alcohols, like we said. I mean, alcohol certainly has a you know, everyone is creative probably. And while almost everyone drinks alcohol, unless you’re a teetotaller or your or your religion’s, you know, it says you can’t or whatever it may be.

So, I mean, is it really. I mean, this kind of comes back, this thing. So is is the question, the answer and everything is kind of creativity like stimulated by this famous kind of lucid, you know, effect, this awakening, this combination of this up and down, which is really seems to be the only thing that you can prove scientifically with this combination of these two things, whether it’s trace amounts or not.

Yeah. It’s still going to have some kind of an effect. Yeah. And that’s the only thing that makes absinthe, you know, because otherwise it’s if you don’t have that already when it’s not absinthe anymore as Ricardo is.

Yeah. So what they really need to do is actually whether they anyone has done is do the same tests they’re doing. I mean talked about it in the cannabis one where you have placebo tests, the same variations of tests as they did then and you might come to some sort of collusion. But having said that, with the cannabis, I still can come to prove it.

Yeah. I mean, I kind of looked into that slightly and just couldn’t find anything that had any conclusive things because it said, like, you know, they were doing even tests on animals. They were doing kind of like these placebo tests on humans trying to, you know, even like I said then testing old original bottles compared to nowadays to see if there was any kind of difference between what’s being produced now and what was being produced then. And again, nothing nothing conclusive in any way. I mean, they kind of one thing I was saying, for example, because it’s such low trace effects, they were saying that by the time they did like a test of extracted actual food.

Joan through Joan. Yeah. Yeah, on. I think it was on rabbits or something like that. And it definitely had some kind of effect. And this is another thing where it kind of like you often hear about a numbness when you hear talk about absinthe, a feeling of numbness. And they were saying that they actually because I always thought, well, that’s probably maybe more to do with the high alcohol content, but that actually seems to be something that’s specific to it because it was creating some of these kinds of effects on animals. They were saying you had to have so much of it before even a rabbit’s getting in effect that even if you drank, say they said to get into the kind of levels equivalent for human of what they were testing, you’d have to drink like a liter of absinthe. And they say you’d be dead if you drink. Of absence, because you are wandering half yeah, because you basically get alcohol poisoning. I mean, when our friend did it, he was obviously violently sick when he did it. And like you said, did he? I mean, from what I remember, he was almost like pouring into his mouth like from a distance. It’s probably going a little bit all over the place. He drank out a lot. But did he actually drink like half a bottle? How big was the bowl? Maybe seventy five. S.L. Yeah. You know, they were talking about like something along the lines of half a liter to a liter marked and you’d just die.

Hundred to fifty. S.L. Right.

Yeah, that’s probably reasonable because of the rest of us were drinking a bit as well. And how much did we actually drink cetera.

Definitely. No, for me, like it was vivid. When I wake up, my body would be aching like any other time. I remember a night. That is when we’re preparing for doing black belts in jujitsu and on a Saturday we’d have three different classes and you end up actually doing something like six or eight hours. Yeah. And it be so seven about six, seven or eight hours every Saturday and then just wake on a Sunday just like just cannot fucking move, you know. I mean I’m totally, totally done. And then I can get the same effect physically doing three shots of I think I must do I’d limit myself at three. I’d be like three. Good. You know, I mean we’re with other things that dirt are sick or, you know, whatever we’re drinking like all kinds of thing, especially when you’re living in England. I mean, with and thinking three, I take three smokers and we do whatever and I’m good. But the physical effects, like you’re saying, it’s obviously probably not dehydration.

That’s not a stupid amount of alcohol to drink, even even if it’s twice as strong as the equivalent of drinking six whiskeys. I mean, if you drink three.

Yeah, exactly. Doesn’t the Senate measure for measure? Yeah. Just the total amount of alcohol.

It’s not like we said it. I mean even some of them can be 100 proof compared to hundred and forty proof. So it’s almost like then you get into like two absence for three whiskeys or something. You know, I mean it’s not like you said, it’s not like some obscene amount of alcohol.

I mean, from my personal experience outside of the when we used to drink here and we get it on the board, like I said, is it, funnily enough, with this kind of resurgence and the fact that it was in Spain and the Catalan and being in Barcelona is the my kind of stand out experience of absinthe other than when our friend.

And that particular night, all the rest of them kind of mixed into one when we drink and whether we were down here or whether we were, you know, whether we were in France or whether we’re in the U.K. or in Spain or wherever. When I was in Barcelona and I actually did it that one time properly in and I think it was an absinthe bar we went into. And like I said, that would have been around, I guess like 99 2000. I’m thinking I went there. And the fact that we did it in that slow way with the sugar, with the water and I’m guessing probably better absinthe even than what we were getting on the border back in those days. And an absinthe bar, you know, we were probably getting the real thing. And like I said, the Catalans seems to always come up the outside of that Paris and Switzerland era. However, many hundreds of years ago, you know that this was a thing. And I remember stepping out and I remember my teacher who I was with, having to basically hold on to the lady who was with us, who is his old friend from art college, who was then an art teacher there. She couldn’t war. And I remember her saying something, funnily enough, about her legs feeling numb. And as far as I remember and I remember this pretty well, I think, to each. So two year cups, I mean, probably bigger than a shock, but not a gigantic, you know, not much maybe like the equivalent of a double shot or something.

So, you know, the equivalent of four shots of alcohol or something. And I go out there and this dude came up and started talking to me. And I still remember this. And I don’t know if it was in my mind or whether I was in that hallucinating kind of thing. And I swear that at the time I thought it was a hobbit. And now I don’t know if this you know, whether this can be kind of an issue, whether it was just a normal dude. And I just imagined that it was because maybe I’d been reading Lord of the Rings on the plane over there or something. I just remember vividly and this what I mean is I don’t want anyone to get offended. It’s not like I thought it was a. However, you want to say politically correct. I’m not saying like a hobbit. I eat like a small person. I actually thought I was talking with like a hobbit from the shire and had just this very odd experience. And the guy was talking to me in Spanish and I was speaking perfect Spanish, which I couldn’t speak good, particularly good Spanish at that point and just had a very one off experience, you know, where like I said, where obviously something I’d been reading at the time had an influence. And then I was seeing this thing and just had this crazy kind of floaty one off experience, which was so maybe a rare absence nights, maybe.

In conclusion to this one, we could probably say. I mean, it seems like the art that was inspired or that people did when they’re taking absent. It sort of got rid of some of the structure that maybe was before and the ways you had to try influencing those movements. Yeah. Or the way you had to paint it. It was coincidentally or not around at a time when all of these things got way less structured, ended up being created in a way that could be influenced by alcohol in general.

And then whether this actually then had an added layer, that it had something that is slightly more psychoactive, trippy, up and down, like we said, the kind of stimulant and sedative kind of chlorination maybe when you’ve used the the alcohol bit.

Maybe D blocks the equivalent of writer’s block. They then also had something else that kicked in. That did help people create kind of high art. But obviously there seems to be no actual proof of that. And then maybe what this is making me think while you’re saying that, is that possibly since we’ve done cannabis in creativity, now done absent in creativity, where do we start going through all the different possible things you can add into their creative mixed, see if they are actually creativity enhancers and see if we can find an answer for people? Where is there something you can actually take that will actually make you more create?

Yeah, I would imagine it’s incredibly unlikely that there’s something that you can take that just is just going to make you creative or even say stimulates creativity.

But it seems like all of these things I said, even though you can’t really prove it definitely seemed to have. There seems to be certain aspects, too. Once we’ve actually delved into it a bit, the really kind of seemed to do a bit more than coincide.

You’ll be kind of chance or stuff like that where there’s there’s elements to them which, like we said, where like we just said in this absence thing that kind of separates it slightly from the other alcohols. And why is it always like, you know, that’s what I said is that’s really what I wanted to delve into on in this podcast. But then the mysticism surrounding something like absinthe or smoking and then does that attract in people all of those things? Because that’s all that is what it is.

You know, I’ve been banned as well. That always helps or whatever. If you’re gonna get if you want something to like increase its appeal to me, just ban it and then I’m there.

Yeah, for sure. If this is the thing is that I mean, I’m presuming this like certain Americans as well who were who were really into it. And like we said, we know that it was banned in America.

There was like Mark Twain and even Roosevelt apparently was into absinthe. And I think they’re more around that correct era. But then there’s. Well, it goes back. I’ve totally forgotten to mention was Alister Crowley. He apparently was crazy on the he left him out of the Crowley episode. So we’ll get into that. But then even people like Sinatra apparently was super into it. Well, it was definitely banned. And Sinatra’s era. Yeah. Because it was banned at the beginning of the nineteen hundreds. And it wasn’t, you know, legalized until early 2001. Matzah. Yeah, exactly. And that he probably would have been through the actual prohibition allow Colin stuff as well.

Even so possibly to evolve where we got into with the cannabis. Thing is that sort of a creative people more likely to just try these things and then possibly when are ongoing. Is there a subconscious thing where people are trying to increase their creative output by testing these things? You know, you constantly doing that subconsciously or is not even a thing, you’re just more likely to try those things. And that’s part of the creative process. Yeah, I think there’s also been studies sort of linking creativity with higher IQ as well. So that might be something we have a look at some point as well.

Because that might that’s something obviously you can just do a test on. Yeah. And kind of law of averages and start look at those kinds of thing. Yeah. Something you can kind of base but science on.

Yeah. But then again it also comes down to that. Like with the cannabis, it’s like cannabis users felt like they were more creative but they weren’t actually doing anything or created that just felt more creative.

Which I’m sure is which like we said I’m sure that that kind of fits in with this one. Yeah. With the absence. I’m sure it fits. I’m sure that probably fits in with anything. But that is still still something. Yeah, it’s not nothing.

I think with absent that, we I think we’ve worked that there is possibly a phases of are in all its different ways that probably are connected with it.

If the effects of absinthe more than probably what we found was smoking, interestingly enough, which I kind of would’ve probably thought it would have been the other way round. Yeah. But it seems like I mean maybe I mean, like Jamie said, we’ll probably have to go and extend this because I think it’s really quite an interesting subject matter. Yeah, it may even be that at some point maybe we need either we do a summary of everything or we need to get back into these things and even look at it look a bit deeper again as well for sure. And or hopefully get some people in who know a lot more about it than us who can at least maybe invite someone who can who is a scientist. Did you invite someone else in who’s got a different speciality, who maybe brews it or makes it or grows or, you know, whatever it may be for sure. Could be interesting, but I think that wraps up. Yeah. So. Yep. Thanks for listening to that one. Absinthe and creativity. See you next time, sir.

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