S1 E3 – Does Cannabis Increase Creativity?

The Pistache Podcast – S1 E3 – Does Cannabis Increase Creativity? Does Cannabis make you more Creative, or are Creative people just more likely to take Cannabis? Nick & Jamie do some research into studies on this subject, and also add some of their own experiences into the mix.Like everything else in life, it seems like Cannabis has it’s good and bad sides.

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S1 E3 Podcast Transcript

This transcript of the Pistache Podcast has been generated using artificial intelligence, so it’s not perfect at this point. This is only episode 3, but i think this transcript is a lot better already.

This is The Pistache Podcast, we’re talking about art, creativity and culture brought to you by Nick and Jamie Bennett.

Before we get on with this episode, we just got a little bit of business take care of to promote the launch of The Pistache Podcast. We’re giving away around two and a half thousand pounds worth of original artwork that we’ve created, which is well over 3000 U.S. dollars worth. So to enter. Go to our website Pistache artists dot com where you’ll find the full details, the prizes you can win, how to enter and the full terms and conditions of the giveaway. It’s really simple. Anthony is not going take him on a couple of minutes to complete this. Quite a few prizes. See, a chance of winning is pretty good. And you can take part in the giveaway till early August. So if you’re listening to this for then you really should enter. You might win some really special pieces of art for your collection. Or if you win, you can also give it away as a gift and have someone love you to the rest of eternity. Something we forgot to mention in the first couple of sodas. The intro music for the podcast was created by Alex English and he can listen to more of his music at soundcloud dot com forward slash l x e hip hop. We’ll put links to that and to the competition in the show notes. Okay. This is episode 3 of The Pistache Podcast. In this episode, we’re going to be looking at cannabis and creativity. And the main question is really be can you become more creative by smoking cannabis or by taking cannabis products? And then essentially, does smoking cannabis make people creative or creative people just much more likely to smoke cannabis? It’s a funny question. That second one, I like it. I think when I was doing research, that’s what it boils down to. And I think what the end of this actual conversation, that’s more or less. Well, we’ll get into it. We got some quotes, but I’m thinking maybe we’ll get into those a little bit afterwards and maybe.

Yeah, the quotes might be. I mean, they’re really interested in people and stuff, but they might be worth chucking in when we’re actually when they’re more relevant rather than just chucking out, you know, some quotes and some stuff.

So with this one, I guess it’s probably slightly more scientific than our last one. Still very, very bro science. And it’s gonna be as far as actually if a scientist is listening to this thing, we’re doing a fucking awful job.

I imagine I’ll probably say even less or a lot less than usual because science and even bio sciences are really my thing. I’m not very good at it.

So basically there’s a study published in a journal call Consciousness and Cognition, which tried to find out if cannabis users in this particular case it is a cannabis. Smokers creatively outperform nonce cannabis users in two tests. The two tests were divergent and convergent thinking. So basically divergent thinking is helps us generate all kinds of possible solutions to problems. So an example of that would be like brainstorming and convergent thinking helps us arrive at one correct answer. Then that would be the kind of answer you’d find in like a multiple choice test in this test that she found, there is no significant difference in the divergent thinking test between users and non users. Basically the brainstorming type of thinking. But they found that cannabis users outperform non users on the convergent thinking test, which is the multiple choice style.

Finding the one correct answer here. Finding one. I mean to start with, I still feel like that’s not a great thing because a lot of these things went against a philosophy of science, a lot of things, you know. Is there one definitive answer to a problem?

Yeah, most of the time there isn’t.

And even when we find one definitive one, often that can be proved false with new information or new discoveries.

Or so I guess when anything when they talk about converging thing is more the principle of how the brain works rather than we’re probably overanalyzing the philosophy of the scientific method.

I’m really surprised by that because like maybe not logic, but just my own logic or my way of thinking.

You’d think it would be the other way around. Yeah. You know, like that would be logical to me. And I would have thought, like, say, if you put a problem to someone and they’ve had had a smoke or consume the products in whatever way eating it taken drops, whatever way you’d think that if you chucked a problem at someone who the same person, say, when they hadn’t smoked and they had smoked, I would have thought it would kind of speak cliched, say it, but open the mind a little bit more and maybe start thinking in broader ways. And I would have thought. On the other hand, it would have probably stopped you from being able to say just a one definitive answer. It’s funny that this.

I mean, I guess when we go through this, there’s quite a lot different research that comes out or different. Yeah.

I mean, little ones we’ve got say, oh, this is just one study.

But then in some ways I feel like that convergent thinking. Finding that answer to me, that maybe has something more to do with maybe focus, isn’t it? Like it you’re focusing. I don’t have the definition of focus is has got to do with one. Like if you focus a camera, you’re focusing on one thing aren’t you. And I don’t know. We we have to have a look about definition of focus. I think I know what we used to. We’re gonna get into R. Cannabis consumption histories. I’m a non-smoker now. I haven’t smoked weed for about six or seven years due to an illness at that point, a respiratory illness, which actually stopped me. But before that was a daily a daily weed smoker. Yeah.

And I mean, I’m actually just as of recently, essentially becoming or have become a non-smoker. Probably not even worth going into the reasons for it. But for whatever reasons it it’s just like that’s just the kind of natural evolution of something that’s happened recently.

So I’m kind of like, oh, somewhere in between. On the other hand, like, say, for example, when we’ve gone up to Amsterdam to work over the last few years, like you said, in those last six years, you go to Amsterdam and you won’t touch anything, whereas a fucking weird guy, Amsterdam and I get busy, I’ll enjoy myself. Having said that, the funny thing is and this is something I mean, again, maybe straight away. Going on a tangent that maybe doesn’t have much to do with the question, but in some ways probably does as well.

Is that with us being like we’ve said, again, roughly 40 years old and starting to have experiences with that kind of thing, pretty young i.e. early teens, we kind of went through an era or certainly in the UK back in those days where when we started there was none of the indoor grown hydroponic THC was just shitter weed.

Yeah, but you say that.

But this is what I was going to say is that when I go to Amsterdam I ask for that. Yeah. Because the thing is and this is something I was talking. I think we were talking about it the other day and I was reading something and I think I was talking as well to someone who asked tattooing the other day and we were talking about it. I actually talked to people last week about it, one who is about our age, who could understand the whole what it was like, kind of almost pre hydroponic and post hydroponic. And then I was talking to some youngsters who pre that being the norm.


Yeah. I’m not saying like pre the idea cause I mean hydroponic stuff. It wasn’t even like create for grown cannabis jammies to create food, like probably grow vegetables indoors or whatever, you know.

But what I mean is that like that you know, from from from my basic understanding and again, I’m probably butchering it. Is it like once all of these things in there? There’s the indoor growing and there’s the hybrid and then the hybrid seeds and all of that kind of stuff. Basically, a lot of the aim of it was pushing the THC levels crazy high. Is to put it very simply.

But the reason I said about all of that is that I don’t even like saying not all that long ago when I was when I would still have a smoke.

Sometimes if I was with people who had really crazy, you know, like indoor what we would always refer to as a general term as skunk, which I’m sure is probably just totally ridiculous. But basically, you know, indoor high THC weed. I even when I was a smoker at the time, I wouldn’t smoke it because I don’t like the effect that I have on it. Whereas what you are saying where it’s almost essentially crappy weed i.e. weed by some Thai Darek or weed, get some Jamaican weed or I don’t know what it was back in those days in London, but I actually really enjoy that. And so going back to what I was just saying is that when I go to Amsterdam and actually go to one place in particular, because we’ve been like a bunch of times and I hope I’m remembering this. Right. But I think it’s called the White Dolphin. And I think it’s one of the oldest places in Amsterdam. And I just really like the people. I really like the vibe. And obviously I’m not interested in smoking my pure weed. Not really being a smoker. So they actually have an upstairs where you can smoke pure and a downstairs where you can actually smoke tobacco and even just cigarettes.

So even when I’m there with you or if say, if I’m there, my girlfriend who doesn’t smoke but who at the time was smoking cigarettes, say the last time I went. But all of that to say that like I go in there and they almost know me now, even I’m not like a crazy regular customer. I mean, I’ve been a handful of times over the last I don’t know how many years and I ask them basically for either the lowest essentially grade as far as THC is concerned. Weed explained to them originally and now they know a lot of time. Or if not, I’ll get some some kind of hash or something like that that, you know, is like a hash that’s been made out of some crazy strong weed. And I just prefer the whole thing. As far as the the what I’m you know, I’m basically smoking to kind of probably more relaxed a little bit, which I mean, can get into the city over in the kind of like debate.

But yeah, I was just thinking about stevia indica as far as overseas. CTV gives you sort of a stronger, uplifting kind of head, higher is more of a sort of St.. You know, the classic stone effect body center, which is more.

That’s why I’m saying that’s more what I’m looking for. I’m not looking to get crazy, crazy high or something. I’m actually I just like and always have done.

Maybe that’s why I didn’t ever really enjoyed the first even influx of weed from Amsterdam or wherever it is.

I remember going early, early visits to Amsterdam. It seemed like. I mean, shout out to two breweries are on this one by literally felt like the first visit there felt like Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas for other reasons other than just the strength of the waves. But it felt like the majority of what we were smoking was more like crazy and crazy, Steve. It made me feel like I’d dropped acid again. And Bruiser, we were in this place and we played one pinball game and I feel like we only put one coin in this motherfucker and we’re literally playing it for hours and hours and hitting all the bonuses. And I guess that goes back to that focus thing. Then I guess the other.

That’s why I was saying about it is like as far as the focus is kind of it kind of comes full circle on that of like what you’re saying is that I remember say doing art work and designing.

Yeah. And say, for example, if I were to have a smoke and then do some designing, I would. Yeah, I would definitely get more focused as far as I say, like all the background noise kind of maybe starts disappearing. All of my focus just becomes on that one thing which for artwork can kind of be good and bad, but not the time that I felt that was quite positive.

Do you think in that case? I mean, obviously in this study you’re looking at, there’s no mention of Steve Indica or anything. Yeah. The THC levels and whether it’s low. There’s another study in a minute that does talk about THC levels. But obviously, you know, I would think that Steve is maybe more of a focusing thing and Indica would be less less focused. Yeah. Like, yeah, yeah. For sure. It seemed to make sense from the effects, which are kind of almost cancel out what I just said. But like when I thought I’d say that almost reinforced force, I really was saying, oh, okay, sorry. So the more up with you higher you’re kind of getting mental high. That’s gonna to be better. The focus where the more body shift I would imagine is just be better for relaxing and not focusing.

Okay. Yeah. But what I meant say is that I never really was much interested in smoke in the city. But even when I smoked, say, Indica or that kind of style thing, I still seem to find that it would still if I just, you know, like either knife or even if I wasn’t doing art work, for example. But just listening to music, I just ended up just getting totally absorbed by that music, for example. I’m just not thinking about other things or.

Yes, I guess the other thing is to talk about briefly about THC CBD and obviously there’s like some like 120 other different component things, you know, have been found in cannabis. Blah, blah, blah. But since I had was mainly a breathing problem that because I couldn’t breathe, then turned into like an anxiety thing. When you can’t breathe, you get quite panicky when all around different types of natural remedies try and things. And I found at the moment I take pretty high strength CBD just drops of oil under my tongue. I find for anxiety just by far the best thing I’ve ever used. But I wouldn’t say that really has. I wouldn’t imagine any creative effects effects whatsoever unless they create effects connected to my anxiety levels. But I don’t feel that my anxiety plays a saw necessarily in my creativity.

So the difference of say, like doing what you’re doing or taking CBD drops, which obviously loads people are doing for all types of illnesses, inflammation and all these kinds of things that’s really current kind of issues at the moment is totally different experience than, say, smoking a joint, whatever kind of weed it was.

I mean, I know when I started doing it because at that point I hadn’t smoked weed to for pretty good five years and the first few drops of the good stuff I put my mouth had the feeling you had an immediate feeling and connect to me to the cannabis thing. People like you won’t feel anything as like, I guess because it’s from so much weed smoking. There was a thing in my mind or something happened a bit like a just a trigger point thing. And I was like, Oh, I know this feeling. And it was kinda like the weed feeling minus being high, which is basically what it is. It’s just the weed minus the THC effects of the THC, isn’t it.

Yeah, it’s interesting.

Like you said when with this kind of like this the not only it’s THC and CBD, but there’s all these other however many components and stuff like in it which also a lot of them sound like CBD on top of it as far as I can remember from the thing is like CB something or other C but it seems to have come down to these two components.

But what was really interesting is these kids were telling me, funnily enough, on top of it, while kids again sound like an old man, but there were people all start to say they’re over 18, but they’re 20 something year olds. And they were explaining to me and they just I think they literally just watched. Documentary, which I think you can see on Netflix and I can’t remember the name, so maybe I’ll bring it back up on a future podcast or put it in the show and I’ll put it in the show notes. Exactly. And they didn’t really because we were tattooing, we couldn’t really just sit there and watch it and bring it up on the phone. So the girl was basically just going through it more or less from her memory. So this is like second, third hand. But she was saying that there’s this. You know, like I guess like with a lot of things with nature, whether it be like anything essentially. So whether it be a Steve or an indica. This is what my understanding was, as long as it has none of the mix. So when we’re talking about because as far as I can understand in nature, it’s either Steve or Indica. Okay. Okay. And I think from what I understood, from what she was saying and people have no doubt going to call me out on this is that one came from North America and the other one came from India. Okay. Okay. Again, it’s totally second hand information. And so when you actually take those initial plants as they were before, there was this initial mixing, which again is way before the whole hydroponic thing that was already happening. But when you take those initial plants, whatever the the they might have slightly different combinations.

But the way in which in nature the two combinations affect each other and play off each other has as with nature, like a kind of I don’t know if you could say like a perfect effect, but it’s meant to be like that. And as soon as humans start messing with it, it becomes something totally different. And there’s no longer that nature of it. However much CBD and have much THC. They they require one and the other two actually almost do things. And as soon as you’re extracting or mixing all of these things and it’s not the initial plant in nature, it’s no it’s it is no longer having that same correct effects.

Well, it also should then goes into the whole if you’re buying CBD, oil, things like that, you get ones where they’re isolating the extracts or you get a full spectrum extract. Okay. Where are then basically extracting all of those all of those carbon cannabinoids? Right. Yeah, I think that’s what I was saying. Yeah. Heightened sense of nothing. So then you get like a full spectrum extract and you can extract it like with using CO2 and there’s different variations because we’ve got a quite good friend who works in the vape industry and he was saying that a lot of them, the ones are working so well, they’re just trying to isolate certain elements rather than getting the full spectrum extract. Okay. And at some people, I think with chronic illnesses or like or, you know, when it’s been used to treat like autism, things like that. Okay. I think some of the people have actually just been taking a pure CBD thing, getting semi results of that. And in some of the cases are like that. Yeah, it’s actually not working for them and they actually need to reintroduce even small levels of the THC back into it. So yeah, that was quite a bit of bro science there about the cannabinoid aims or the strains THC CBD. But one thing, going back to that study about divergent and convergent thinking, there was another study. They used three groups instead of just smokers and nonsmokers and they used slightly different groups. So one was a high dose THC group. One was a low dose to THC group and one was a placebo who thought they were taking THC. So you basically got got one of each those. And then what it suggested the results, the study was that cannabis with low potency, low dose does not have any impact on creativity at all.

Is what this study said is that while high, high dose cannabis actually impairs divergent thinking like brainstorming, and I could I could definitely think when I’ve the times I’ve smoked really fucking strong weed like science, TV interview or whatever. I don’t think that’s the time for me to do brainstorming here. I think you’re interesting right here and go, yeah, yeah. You know, think about these things. I think I just like. I guess it depends what is classified as high dose, but high dose, something about the kind of shit where you got a joint in your hand and you put it over the back of the sofa for half an hour and then somewhere else another joint. And then when you go back to pick it up, you realise you still got a joint thing is where you’ve got those thoughts in your head where suddenly you like, wait a minute, did I think oh, did I actually just say that out loud? And something else goes, you said out loud. But you’re talking like incomprehensible bullshit, you know, mean it wasn’t like you might have thought. Your thing is ideologies got averted. That was it, you know? And obviously, when we were younger, as well as quite a lot of like eating hashish as well, which is. Yeah, I guess you’re crazy. Again, that produces crazy slightly. Chemical reaction because there is no combustion involved. Now, I know again, I feel like that’s like where you can eat some hash. You can be high as fuck. Go to sleep and you wake up and you’re just as high. And then you can possibly even do that like again.

It’s okay. It definitely feels different. Yeah, it definitely feels different. And I think as well. I mean, when you if you do it a few times and you’re used to it. I think we’re not the time we would almost call it was a like a word or something like time bombing because of that. Also, that’s that thing. Is that like when you smoke, you smoke and you literally booyah it straight away. Whereas when you were eating, you eat it, you there like for 20 minutes, maybe half an hour, nothing’s happening.

And then it’s like his hand and it’s dropped a bomb or you eat mushrooms, assuming you light things like that.

I have a bit more. Yeah. And then it’s like, oh, it’s like, wait a minute. Is that the. And then it just like a fucking lesion. I thoroughly enjoy that actually.

I remember a really good time with our really good friend Alex. And this is really funny because I think I might have been living with Alex at the time and me and him probably until it took a day off work or something.

I think I was working with him. It was that that place I worked with him, the wildlife center. Why are you having the day off to go the cinema? And we went to see the film CONAN, which is like a film about the Dalai Lama.

And it had like incredible life, like, you know, images of Tibet and the mountain rising sea and cinema.

Yeah, really good seeing the cinema. And so basically we got there because we were running a bit late. We didn’t have time to have a smoke. So so we had to stay a bit. And I remember like this, the thing I was so absorbed by it that I didn’t even remember properly where I was or that Alex was with me or anything like that. But I was watching it and I was just having such a great time. And then I looked over and Alex is just basically he wasn’t asleep. He was like, semi passed out. And literally, when I looked over at him or it might be the reason I looked over at him, his kind of eyes opened slightly is like, oh, oh, the colors, the colors also.

And then passed out again. And then the funny thing was, is I think that you I don’t know if this is like whether this was a week apart or a year apart because we were talking about it. So who knows? Yeah, we talked about it recently ish, but you had exactly the same experience. And on top of it, watching Seven Years in Tibet. Was that the name of the film Seven Years in Tibet? I think eventually you wrote with Alex eight some instead of probably because you’re late again, as usual and had exactly the same thing. You loved it, enjoyed it. Watch the whole thing. Alex, do you remember any of it?

I think actually him on a separate night, I think he actually used to go to the cinema just to get some sleep. I think that was in place. He could get peaceful sleep. And on an on a separate night, just slamming the note about him is the one time I got really, really high with him. And that was when we were into martial arts and a lot of martial arts classes watched martial arts playing Tekken on the PlayStation one or two and I have my body tech.

And he sat on it and I was like, what? The tech, just as well explain it to people is like a sort of electronic muscle stimulation thing that’s kind of connected to variously. You basically plug electrodes into it. It makes your muscles pump. You act as if you’re pumping iron, but you’re certainly not. You’re sitting there smoking weed and playing place. And he yeah, put it on his arse to try and get the Clooney Batman kind like but flex going on and he actually got so high that he sort of passed out when he woke up in the morning he still had the tech connection is asking me. Very been sitting there for like six hours.

He probably couldn’t sit down for like a week or something after that. Man you imagine how much your muscles talking about. Actually, you know, seeing as you said about the martial arts, we’ve kind of this is another one of these findings that you wanted to bring up.

So they were saying about the psychoactive compounds in the cannabis plant, a, stimulating him. And and so they boost output of all kinds, but it can be positive and negative. And I know that you’d said about it with special regard to Spore and are two experiences. The main ones, which is why I’m bringing up was the the martial arts, especially jujitsu.

And in basketball as well, we’re surfing in there just thinking about it now. We’ve had some pretty crazy high like weed smoked psychedelic night surface as well. But it’s it’s different because when you’re surfing, you’re kind of you’re very in the moment.

It’s it’s a very real talk come up blocks. It’s been a very important part of our life. It’s have it’s it’s such a cliche thing, again to say, but it’s like it’s a various. Bestial and very I can’t really compare it to anything, even skateboarding or stuff, and I’m not saying it’s better or worse or better or anything like that, but it’s become so instinctual. And I think it’s partly because of the fact that you’re in the water and waves come in and, you know, say if you’re noticing with an energy pole connecting with an energy pulse, which is a really when else do you do that? You know, I mean, maybe a little bit with people who maybe do some in like paragliding or hang gliding where they’re using wind. You can’t see. You know, maybe that might be something I’ve never done it, so I couldn’t say. But the difference of, say, surfing and skateboarding for me anyway is when you’re skateboarding, you’re looking at the terrain in front of you. Yeah. You know what I mean? It’s like you can go back on it whether you’re skating around for your street skating or whatever it may be. It’s like it’s a fixed environment. And surfing is anything but. Even if you’re surfing a spot where the wave is like super consistent and it’s got rock bottom. So that’s the difference is sand. It means that the waves more the same sort of shape. Yet at the same time. But you could actually catch one wave and the next wave that you catch. Two minutes later.

And they’re and they’re totally they’re all going to be ever so slightly different size. We’re ever so slightly different wind when you’re on the wave, ever so slightly different tide. There’s all these. My new variables are changing. I think probably.

But then the experience of the cannabis. And with that, I might be I think that I connect in almost better. Yeah. You know, I don’t know how to explain it, but you think I might be.

That’s very something. I know we want to do an episode on kind of flow and flow state.

Yeah, we should probably talk about surfing because there was one thing I was about say about surfing, but I’ll keep it for another two years.

I think that’s even probably the connection to cannabis back into that. Yeah. But having said that, definitely we’ve had some go out like sunset, super high spot, you know really well with perfect waves. And if you manage to get like like in the barrow and just some of the shit you get so psychedelic and crazy, impossible to feel like you’re literally just in space or saying like it’s definitely really out there.

But I think, yeah, it’s a weird one because like you said, like somebody like tube riding is impossible to explain. And it’s like you’re in a vortex. Yeah, something like that. But like we said, we’ll talk about that because that I’ll be it. I mean, the cannabis experience in it has something to do with it. But I think the reason I said about say like the jujitsu, my personal experience of it is like you said, when we were going to jujitsu classes, we we were doing more like Japanese jujitsu. But obviously, I mean, you know, I kind of followed you into the jujitsu world and you know so much more about it. But there was the one big thing that we can both agree on is that I was going to say if we had a smoke before, but it’s almost more like when we had a smoke for is that if we were going to roll, which I see is literally like basically fire, you know, ground fighting randomly on the ground here.

It’s ground fighting and it’s it’s very much touch feel again, like kind of going with the flow. You feel someone touch you somewhere in rather than even looking at it. It’s it’s it’s quite a special thing.

It’s a style of spar, basically, like in the jujitsu we did, it’s connected with like the French Judo Federation or this specific class. We’ve done other classes of Brazilian jiu jitsu training with other people, but we would do kind of there be three types of sparring. So one would be where you just on your knees and you just grab each other by the ghee and you’re just doing groundwork. Yeah. And that’s so our next working out. Then you’d get the next stage where you’d incorporate that kind of jujitsu with all the locks in with judo throwing. So you basically be doing judo sparring but with more groundwork when you go on the floor i.e. judo.

Normally once you throw someone on the ground, you’ve got very few seconds and you either have to pin them or hold them or control them in a way. Otherwise you just stand back.

There’s a lot techniques you can’t use that you can have shows, jujitsu. And then the third one would be getting more towards MDMA style sparring, but without the kind of punching on the ground sort of thing. So you’d have you can punch land just punching and kicking, then grapple, then stand up judo wrestling style and then you go on the floor into jujitsu. So it’s kind of.

But no ground and pound once you’re on the rounds. I wouldn’t hold so much down MMR numbers kind of more slightly more rules.

Mmi type sparring here in the in the. And I think our uncle was a super good chess player in Finland. I don’t know if this is Togo is your thing is ranked number two chess player in Finland at one point and the Finns are good at chess.

Yeah, the Russians.

And boy, you can realize the jujitsu is it’s like a physical game of chess.

Yeah, you often hear people say that. I mean, you know. Rogen Yeah. Eddie Bravo in all those kinds of guys, they all talk about it.

And a lot of the chess players are notorious for losing their minds or being on the. The line of it being so complex insanity, because something in chess. I call him grafted on four or five moves. The amount of possibilities are literally like millions. Or it only takes a few minutes to get into super deep variation thing and then all around.

Do that. I do this. You do that like yo pre. Yeah. Yeah, that’s crazy.

So yeah, the jujitsu is kind of like that where if you’re fighting someone there might have a certain opening move that they’re very strong at. And then you react, they react. And by the time there’s one or two or three of those chain reaction, you’re totally instinctual. Yeah, the variables can go in any way. And that’s where the ends. It seems like weed is awesome. I’d literally but I’d have like a rich before jujitsu.

If it was the evening class, I’d goni a quiche before I’d gone to Acacia. Lunch. Oh, lunch. They say the cloud and like buddy quiche.

Say two o’clock I’d smoke a joint. I’d never smoke a joint after 3 o’clock. And if I smoke joint 3 o’clock time 7 o’clock came round, I’d have the perfect sort of high residue or whatever. The thing I was doing likely to be to get into the de jujitsu which is connected to this broadcast because it is super creative. So yeah, I feel like it’s upping my creativity and a lot of say on the Joe Rogan podcast or a lot of things, people going, oh but you know, we. Cannabis THC is not a performance enhancing drug. And for me, I’m like, it’s total garbage. They improve my performance in jujitsu like ten fold. If I didn’t smoke, I’d be useless. If I smoked, I’d be way better.

It’s interesting because like you said, that’s the that’s when we’re talking about the positives and negatives, which is kind of like the thing that I just broke up. You know, like whether or not it’s stimulating and then whether that stimulation is good or bad here, because like we were saying, so for the rolling in, the more instinctual and all of that kind of stuff, the actual fighting on the ground. Like like review, I found that it was very positive and I really had a good thing, on the other hand. Also in jujitsu and it’s the same in all white. I mean, it’s a Japanese word, Katter. So when we were we didn’t know what we’re going to do in class. And sometimes I mean, we always rolled, but sometimes we do.

Katter Sometimes we wouldn’t sometimes learn it’s like nails, something like that. Yeah, more more like a certain catcher as well as spy.

And I mean, I don’t know what the exact definition of Katter is.

Hang on. I might even just try. And you know, while Nick’s looking that up, I thought there was also quite an interesting other piece of the puzzle as far as the studies go. And this one was actually done at Washington State University. They seem to suggest that cannabis had no actual effect on creativity but more and perception of one’s own creativity. Okay. So they’re saying basically that those who smoke cannabis self reported high levels of artistic creativity than non users. However, the funny thing about that is, is that they didn’t actually appear to have produced any more creative works and actually done anything more than just in their minds. They feel like they’re more creative, but they’re not producing any more creative work. But I mean, it’s still quite an interesting concept, isn’t it? If you feel like you’re more creative, but apparently I don’t know what the study is and you feel like you’re more creative, but you’re not actually doing anything more, that’s almost like quite a good summary of cannabis.

Yeah, man, it’s not a bad thing on salvia is almost sounds like ridiculous. You’re almost like if you’re feeling good, then you’re doing good. Yeah, kind of to a certain extent. You know, buddy feel like from when I stop smoking.

Definitely on the results basis or getting shit done. I definitely feel like I’m getting more shit done since I stopped smoking. Like, yeah, sure. Let’s see if I think and with the creativity thing. As soon as I stopped that, one thing I would be thinking is, oh, am I gonna be as creative as I thought before. I’d be like smoking weed, do some r feel super creative deal like that. And then as soon as I stopped I was like I feel just like that, but probably more like that. But I also have a feeling like, is there a point where you’ve consumed so much cannabis? It’s almost like the obelisks effect where you have it’s like a permanent thing or it’s transformed my mind into a more creative state that I don’t need to top it up anymore. It’s been a thing that’s just happened over time. It’s like marketing where all part of you almost. Yeah, that’s just where I’m at now. And is that in any way due to the cannabis consumption?

You know, yeah. It’s an interesting idea of whether that I mean I very much doubt there’s any actual scientific kind of evidence or investigations into that or whether that’s possible or whether, like you said, because I mean a lot of it is in your mind anyway. So regardless of almost sometimes what science says on a lot of those things, if that’s how you feel it is, maybe that’s just how it is. And that might be like that for you, but it might not be. The same for other people because it’s a matter of experience and personality.

And so really that sort of comes back to the one of the initial questions that does smoking cannabis make people creative or creative people just more likely to smoke cannabis? You know, like I mean, I guess it’s a really interesting is an interesting question that one or one of those points, then probably a couple of those quotes that, you know, is very, quite a good time to get into those where Steve Jobs said that the quote is the best way I could describe the effect of the marijuana and the hashish in whatever those you know, where you put your fingers up and do that stupid quite yet air quotes is that it would make me relaxed and creative. So Steve Jobs is feeling like it’s make him relaxed and creative. He’s probably to be fair, you’d say he’s a pretty creative guy like his. He definitely isn’t lacking for creativity, lying life, for sure. I mean, you look at what he did and then another what quite sort of along the same lines is the brilliant Bill Hicks, he said. See, I think drugs have done some good things for us. I really do. And if you don’t believe drugs have done good things, just do me a favor. Go home tonight and take all your albums or your tapes or your C.D. and burn them. Because you know what? The musicians you made all the great music. It’s enhance your life through the years. Real high on drugs. It’s a good quote. And that’s the point. Yeah, but then that’s like a broader question. And just cannabis isn’t it. Yeah.

Cause that kind of goes into that hole. Like the first thing that pops into my mind is the absinthe. Yeah. Famous absinthe artists and those kinds of things.

And then shroom things. Yeah. And people doing these empty paintings like all that stuff. So I guess this is probably going to be the first part of a series that looks at different. I mean I guess we’re probably going to maybe limited things. We have personal experience of LSD, mushrooms, alcohol, certain things on the creative process.

But maybe who can get into things we don’t have personal experience of, especially when we’ve got guests in, you know, be down to a lot of their personal experience with a lot of these things as well.

And then a Jay-Z quote is pretty simply said, I smoked some weed and that’s how I finished, is I I. Yeah, that’s how he got it done. You know, I mean so.

Yeah, that’s interesting. Yeah. Those are those are definitely some interesting quotes from obviously some really not only inspiring people who are very productive people as well on that kind of goes on kind of falls into what you were just talking about before the quotes of like how productive you really are. Yeah. And this is the thing is that like some people might be more productive with it and some people might be more productive without it. Yeah. Who knows?

I guess then when they do these studies, they’re trying to take 500 people or thousand people and then work out with them.

What kind of what are they smoking like? You know, I mean, this thing like there’s so many different variables we seem to show is really high grade.

And it was fucking your creative process potentially. Right. And the really low grade shit is not having any effect. So there’s obviously a Yes. Sarah image.

I mean, there’s probably something to be said there. But then it goes back to the thing of like, you know, kind of these medical experiences with everything or scientific experiences is like how, you know, what’s the scale, what’s the there’s this again, it comes back this thing.

There’s so many variables that they’re proving something scientifically, a lot more than what we can say of say, I’m talking about my own experience. So you’re talking about your own. But it’s still it’s by no means just as a definitive answer or that encompasses the whole thing. It just kind of gives you a lichen a bit more insight than just your own person.

A lot of the times, you know, who’s funding the research, by the way? Why are they doing it? Has it been double blind, placebo tested? There’s a lot of variables. Yeah.

How how is it sort of being funded unless you’re actually the person who’s doing the test, you know why you’re doing it and all of that kind of stuff. And and then are you telling the whole truth if, say, like someone’s always paying for your research? Sure. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess and. Yeah. Yeah. Unless by any chance that someone decided to do one and they’re super rich and they funded it themselves, without them they might have a personal bias and I end up unconsciously kind of going down.

The only way you can do that is I was sat in an airport for about eight hours and I just listened to for us a hobby talk about the philosophy of science. And I was feeling like I fucking knew what the fuck I was talking about, or at least I wanted to test it out. It seemed very interesting to me.

He’s a jujitsu coach, right? I’m not jujitsu coach. He was a coach or champions. I think is his main M.A.. Yes. Yeah. In Canada.

But then I happened to then just be sitting next to do in the airport by eight hours and he was studying well, working in vaccines at Cambridge University in England. And he was there’s lots of other things we sort of. Disagreed on, agreed on, I said. Testing would learn fast talking about, you know, this kind of thing and people funding research. And he. His research into vaccination there is funded by the Gates Foundation, by Bill Gates, his wife. And he was talking about how they actually can’t put any bias into the research in initially say. Bill Gates thought that if you take India, for example, that putting in just loads of Western style toilets would reduce a lot of the disease transfer between people. And, you know, he was just thinking might be a good idea. Not that it’s a bad idea. But they tried to implement some of that and they realized that actually it wasn’t having the cost benefit ratio wasn’t worth doing. So he said what they do based at Cambridge, the vaccine is vaccine researchers, all of the same people studying it, the doctors, professors, whatever are going to call them. They’ll all write papers that the other people don’t know who’s written the paper. Then they will vote on which one they think should get research. And then the research then gets funded by the Gates Foundation, who then they can have no they have no say in which piece of research gets funded, is just voted by everybody who’s basically voting on something they don’t know who wrote the original paper.

And then that’s really interesting. And then following on from that, what about as far as it being published? Is just everything published?

Well, then I think then your research gets published and then you get what you call it.

So as long as you you actually get the funding and you’re able to do the the project or whatever is in the research, it will get published wherever.

Yeah. And then your offices are with the scientific method. My understanding is it then gets peer reviewed. So then other scientists or other things can then try and break it down. And then that’s how you end up with I think say, you know, in science where the problem is that there isn’t actually people call things theories, but they actually end up not they’re just hypothesis hypotheses in the. There’s been different theories of like gravity, for example, until, say, the first year gravity people build up where. But what about this? What about this? Until all the shit builds up, we light a case. I need someone else. Then comes and does their own theory gravity that takes into account all these other things and then it builds up and builds. And it’s and it’s never ending. Yeah. So you can only really be in a hypothesis. It can’t. Sure. My understanding of is that they can’t go into a theory status because say you’ve got 10 theories in ten years time, half of those will just be proven to be bullshit. That’s not actually a theory.

And on top of it kind of goes back in that thing which we mentioned in the earlier episodes if like the stuff with Graham Hancock. Yeah. And. And his like ideas about like the Egypt stuff because the. Of many smokers. Yeah. Yeah. So Iowa that’s why it popped into my head is I think he might have even on the one the recent ones said that he stopped recently.

He did not restart. Oh did he. He stopped 3G and no one in the Joe Rogan ones. Jay wrote a massive joke right after I read it. Nice.

Like other times, he’s obviously, you know, a perfect example of someone who’s super creative. Yeah. With his ideas and and hypotheses on things. And people try and turn down cause some of them actually turn out to be terrible shit crazy. And some of them now in the scientific mainstream.

Right. But what I was gonna say about it is that like not only that but he gets such crazy resistance from the Egypt blogs. Yeah. Because I guess some of those theories and I mean, I don’t know enough about it. So back on the bro science. But I guess like some of the thing. Oh, science. Yeah. Some of the things have been so they’ve been generally accepted for quite a long time now. So people have literally spent their whole lives and there may be an 80 year old man who spent his whole life talking about it and generally accepted theories. And then all of a sudden from one moment to the other, someone comes along and not only puts those theories in jeopardy, but almost is maybe proving straight up to a certain extent at least, that everything you spent your entire life studying and proving and doing, everything wasn’t right. Yeah, well, I mean, you know, some of us part of the scientific.


And that’s what I mean is that some people who are just maybe just not so cool are going to resist it. And cooler people might find that. Great. You know, I mean, someone is really open minded. I mean, cool and not cool is probably just a ridiculous thing to say. But someone who’s basically more closed minded maybe has a higher opinion of themselves and the work that they’ve done, they’re going to resist it where someone is open minded and probably is more humble, just as, you know, literally as characteristics of their personality.

They’re going to accept it more and they’re actually going to be the ones who get enjoy our stuff because they’re going to that’s going to be super interesting. You know, even if you have spent your whole life doing something and then you find out, oh, shit. It’s not even like it says that everything that you said was wrong. It’s just that with someone like Graham Hancock’s stuff, it’s like, yeah, all those people lived in there or did all these certain things in there. But what he’s saying is just that they didn’t actually. Build them, it was built and prior to that. And this is just like someone using it. Someone that was already built. Yeah.

I mean, it’d be like saying, you know, if you take gravity, for example, this is definitely gonna be totally butchered. But I think I think Newton had a theory of universal gravitation, gravity. Einstein had a general theory of relativity, which is described slight gravity, not as a force, but as a consequence of curvature of space time. I think now there’s other people who have alternative theories, but you’re not going to go, well. Fuck Newton because his theory of gravity needed work. It’s like you just made it.

He made it crazy. This is something that like without him, for example, or all the different evolutions like you say, we wouldn’t be able to get to where we’re at. Yeah, it was necessary. Isn’t the famous Newton one about the apple falling on his head or something like that? Isn’t. It wasn’t that with Newton. Possibly. I think. I think maybe it might.

But then, you know, he had lots of other. It’s not. That was his sole contribution. And, you know, I guess it’s not even like he was really wrong.

It’s just it’s like the reasons why and some some of the theory and parts and aspects of it were wrong. Yeah. I was actually going to just jump back before I totally forget. So when we were talking about the martial arts stuff, so we were saying that, you know, like you have a smoke. You go to martial arts class. Yeah, you do that. You do the light rolling on the ground and the ground fighting. And had both of us had super positive experiences with that. And then I said with the cata that I had a super negative effect.

And basically so yeah, I did bring up the thing. So the cat is like a Japanese word that literally means form. It’s quite interesting, actually. It’s when we used to do Chinese martial arts, when we were doing what is called catcher in Japanese. We just called them forms. Yeah. But anyway, that’s to say that they’re basically there. It says here that they’re detailed choreograph patterns of movement may made to be practiced alone. Or or they can be in pairs as well. But they’re basically because they can also be practiced in groups and in unison when training. But it’s basically it’s something that’s practiced as a way to memorize and perfect the movement that’s being executed.

So just put it simply is that when you see people, for example, if you’re just not into martial arts, it’s just to try and explain what the catcher is, is the you know, you’re standing there and you’re basically going to do. I’m thinking a friend’s words on Shen more. You’re doing like a chain of movements that say, so you’re standing there and then you turn one way and you do a right punch and then a left punch and then you might do a low kick and then the high kick. And then, you know, you’re basically doing it like a chain of movements that are set in stone and basically play. You know, there’s a lot of memory. And then once you do it enough times, it becomes muscle memory. But what I’m saying is when we were learning the catcher and even when I knew the cata, if I did it without smoking, I was okay at it. My memory is and definitely not my forte, but I was okay at it. But on the other hand, if I smoked like this, I couldn’t get past first movement. You just said that again. I just forget where I’m at and I just couldn’t do it. And it’s just an interesting thing of like we said, that’s a very it within one art form.

It’s a very positive and a very negative or also depending on what you do in the cancer element of it is not particularly creative. Not just exactly.

I have wrapped that initial point that I wanted to make is. It’s like it’s just learning like out of a textbook, essentially. Whereas like you say, the other thing is ultra creative.

And both of our experiences and I’d love to hear if other people have had similar experiences and I wouldn’t be surprised because like we said, I just felt it so strong. It was just obvious it was more than obvious. I very much doubt the people would have smoke and then go into a catcher and find that they are better at it.

I’d be very surprised. I mean, anything’s possible. Yeah. That’s no. I mean, that experience is like that.

Another another quote, which I quite liked by one of the coolest people of all time is George Carlin. He said where the drugs are concerned and alcohol, they do seem to open a window for you, but they do seem they do seem to broaden the vistas. And then it’s at the end. It has at first. It’s like dot, dot, dot. I think there is like a diminishing returns style.

It’s a very it’s a very kind of good point. It’s like you said, it’s like I think like times. I mean, overall, the time, whether I’ve been a smoker or not been a smoker, I’ve I’ve not just constantly smoked day in, day out. Yeah. Constantly throughout, you know, week to week, month to month, year to year. There’s always been light either imposed or not imposed breaks here and where when I’m done some for intense.

Yeah. Yeah. I mean whether it’s like going travelling somewhere I just wish I just wouldn’t smoke or smoke. They’re going to kill you. Exactly. Or you couldn’t get it or for what.

Like I said, whether it’s imposed or even some. Time is voluntary, yeah. Yeah. The thing about it is, is that like when you take those breaks or the times, you know, like I said, I’ve definitely taken a bunch of breaks. And whenever I’ve gone back to it, I’ve always had a really great time. And I almost felt like I was like a young teenager again and having like similar things to those first experiences and stuff. Whereas when it is just like on that sort of day to day, week to week, month to month, there’s not only is it not as enjoyable as that, but it becomes you become a bit needy. Yeah. I mean we’re like in actual fact, you can easily fall into that trap of like I need it and then I might start freaking out because I don’t have any. Or something like that. And I think anyone probably out there can relate to that. I think most people feel that it’s a pretty common thing.

I think that there is another quote I found that is interesting when I initially said the person’s name was lie below. I don’t know why. I just let personal biases. Alanis Morissette. Well, I’m not ready. And, you know, it’s not like. Oh, yeah. George Carlin and Bill Hicks. Yeah. These are like some of our favorite people. What she said was said possibly. Oh, it’s a good point to come up with. She says as an artist, there’s a sweet jumpstarting quality to marijuana for me. I’ve often felt telepathic and receptive to inexplicable messages my whole life. I can stave those off when I’m not high. When I’m high. Well, they come in and there’s less of a veil, so to speak. So I if I ever need some clarity or a quantum leap in terms of writing something, it’s a quick way for me to get to it. So it’s sort of just almost takes off her filter. And, you know, she can kind of then access that other level of information that maybe when she’s not high, she’s automatically sort of blocking off, you know, and it’s also like providing that little injection of like inspiration year or something like that as well.

It kind of is the way I read, like the end of that.

You know, the end of that year, which is kind of a third as short as a quantum leap in terms of writing something or something like that, where it’s like boom, like especially I must admit that I think that from my own personal experience that say like, if I’ve got an art project where it’s still in like the total beginning theory phase where it’s like, okay, I’ve got to do this, say the client or the person or whatever, the circumstances may be basically like, okay, so this is the project and it’s all written down or is that point?

You know? Yeah. And then sometimes even depending from one day to another, totally regardless of of cannabis use one day, it’s just not the right time. And the next day I’m off. But I definitely found that say if I was in that position when I was still smoking, that if I sat there and I had that blocked feeling that quite a lot of the time just going out and having a smoke and then coming back, would that I can kind of understand.

I think that I definitely relate to that, that it would give me some kind of inspiration or like like an injection of inspiration, you know, like like what she says.

Like, I definitely feel like I kind of feel kind of get that. But I kind of also feel that when I’m blocking on things before I’ve actually done anything, and I feel like if I actually just put pen on paper, then I’m actually doing it. And then it just sort of starts. Yeah, to certain extent.

But this is what I mean is I I kind of feel like that may be like smoking a joint actually facilitated that put pen to paper. Yeah. Or it would like or maybe the problem was like what we’re saying is that like maybe what was blocking me for example is I had other shit going on in my mind and maybe it was the fact that I had a smoke and then came back to it helped with what we were talking about earlier where all of a sudden I’m exhausted, just nothing but with that one thing. And that’s what helped me put pen to paper and actually go somewhere where they’re just saying obviously it’s like it’s a total idea because like I said, I think I think more timing how I’m feeling and God knows how many other things it feels like to me. Like now if I’m doing something and there’s no cannabis use playing on it, it seems to be just from one moment to another. It could even be a couple hours later. It could be the next day, might take a week. You know, you talk about that with tattoo designs as well as it sometimes it just comes to, you know, yeah, I feel like in a battle, battle, battle.

And then another day it just comes to you, I feel with our encompassing tattoo in anything creative we have to do at least half the time or with tattoos all the time. It’s for a client, you know, like it’s they’ve got a definitive commission type project. And at that point, it’s really you don’t have have, you know, information, but you don’t want him to give you too much information and be micromanaging it. And that’s when I find I block more when was like, I really gotta have this or be like this or do this. And I’m like, but you’re not an artist. You might actually be making. It’s worse than if you just let our creative process happen. I can just star and just make it happen and the results will be better. Where, you know, a lot of clients, the majority will understand that and they’ll let you do your work. But then sometimes you get the ones where they’re like, oh, at this or change this.

And yeah, that makes a huge difference in that day.

They just they squash your creative energy that blocks my writing flow more than I must admit that.

You know what you said about just before sometimes like and I don’t really do this so much now. I used to do this a little bit. And I think this is probably right at the beginning of the tattooing. And maybe it was just because right then and there, it was slightly different to the art projects in the end, like there was there was more of them, but it was slightly less work.

You know, I mean, because a lot of the time when we’re doing the art projects, there’s a lot more to it. Whereas the tattooing is almost it’s more simple. It’s like I’ve just got to do this design based on smaller criteria, for example, or something like that. I mean, that actually probably is and isn’t true. But what I mean say is that sometimes like if I go into that blocking phase and I’d say seeing someone say on a Saturday and I knew that I’d said to them originally, I’ll get back to you next week. And because that next week is kind of like an open ended thing. Yeah, I wouldn’t like you said one thing. I wouldn’t force the pen to paper. And I’d almost be maybe sometimes waiting on that creative kind of thing to go on.

But what what I would do is sometimes say if it got towards the end of the week and I’m getting nowhere, say it’s Thursday morning and I’m like, shit, I said I’d get back then by the end of the week I would literally sometimes say something like, well, look, I’m busy at the moment, but I’ve already done your designs. I can’t send them to you, but I’ll send them to you tonight. Yep. And almost. That just means that, like, whatever happens, I’ve got to send them something. And that pushed me to put pen to paper and then the whole the whole thing just kind of went on.

You know, I mean, yeah, I pretty much always do that. Irvine’s self-imposed deadlines can definitely make it happen. I mean that goes back saying we’re talking about before where it’s like, are you doing this as your way of making money and earning a living or are you just doing it as like a personal sort of jerk off projects where you can just do whatever you want. You know, and feel good about it, where you have no deadlines and it makes it sort of irrelevant. I mean, if you’re not doing it for your own work, I’m assuming you’re doing a lot less commissions. You’re doing just are you like in and maybe by or. I don’t know. But I guess there’s a few other interesting things that came out of the research. And one of them probably has a big impact is that it said in a lot of studies that cannabis users were more open to trying different substance says and and having new experiences. And I guess that’s how you end up taking smoking your first joint in the first place, isn’t it? Right. Just hyper partisan, personal, just more open to that. Yeah. As a thing, is that what is more connected to creativity than the actual cannabis use? You know, you’re that kind of personality more open to ideas. Does that mean that you’re more creative in general? That seems to me. I mean.

But then you get other bits in some research where they were reporting that cannabis use is a generally more extrovert and less conscientious. Where to me, that is just total garbage from my point of view. I mean, a people he outwardly more extrovert, generally more introverted. I wouldn’t say a lot of people when a smoking makes you more extrovert, I say that’s more like an alcohol general connected thing. Yeah. Actually smoking weed make you more introverted like I would think so as well. And then not being conscientious again, I say the same thing. People have more tendency to drink more. Don’t give a shit less conscientious. I’d say if you’re a smoker, you’re probably more going towards that anxious, paranoid thing where that generally would make you more conscientious. I would. I would. Yeah.

I guess there’s one more thing that probably comes into that of like the conscientious and not conscientious or lack that that kind of side of things that just popped into my head. Is that like one thing and this is obviously we’re right in the middle of gigantic change at the moment. I like all of the places the cannabis is becoming legal or semi legal outside of the CBD.

I mean, you know, like obviously all the all the different states in America and in Canada, obviously, we started really with Amsterdam. But then now you’re getting places like, for example, like the area of northern Spain. You just next to where I live in the Basque country. It’s kind of it’s still a little bit like loose. I don’t know if anyone really knows exactly what the laws are, but as far as I can understand from what people have said to me is I think you’re allowed to grow maybe two or three plants. And I think you’re allowed to have a calm in what is maybe five or 10 grams or ten grand, 10 grams on you. And they can they legally cannot seize it. On the other hand, you’re not allowed to smoke in the street. Yeah. You know, all those kinds of thing. This is all. Private sort of stuff, but you’re allowed to have it in your pocket. But you can’t be walking around smoking a joint in San Sebastian or something like that. Yeah, but then they started adding in these social clubs, which we kind of had very early kind of brushes and experiences with where you could go into places. And they’ve got limited numbers of like official members, like private members, like a private member’s club. So you can go in, you can buy. But you’re you’re you’re buying is regulated. So it’s like a you can’t leave with more than a certain amount in one go. But then it’s regulated per week, per month, per year per person.

And obviously, the number of members is regulated in some of states. Some have been shut down because I think some of them were abusing like the thing and they had like hundreds of members. And then you could probably maybe even other drugs were starting to filter in. But essentially, it was some way where you could go by and smoke. Yeah. You know, there was one friend of mine victim took me to the. This was about two years ago. Some another year or two ago. Can’t remember what the name of it was, but it was a name I recognized I think is probably actually something Amsterdam based. But anyway, it was a gas janelle and cannabis club and society. And this was really cooks, obviously. I mean, anyone out there who knows, I go to San Sebastian, have something to eat. It’s unbelievable. Northern Spain. Bilbao as well. We mentioned earlier with the Guggenheim, the food culture is incredible. And it’s like so you go to this place and you could go downstairs. And it was just like, basically, you know, it’s like a simple entrance you had to go through, like a kind of security thing with your card or a member could take a non-member, but then they had to they could only go once or twice before they became a member, etc. But you go down there and there’s this big round like Spanish, they’d like where the big planter in front of them cooking up some food. And then next to that you had like a little bar which had alcoholic drinks.

But generally people seemed to be drinking other stuff because maybe there was no need for it. And then there was the the place where you could buy your smoke and basically then just tables and you could sit around, tell you what market spend all day, every day in that place. An unbelievable game. Just jump in back. You know, when I was saying and I think I just totally got sidetracked and I can’t remember what happened. But when I was saying about the the alcohol and the tobacco thing and when you were saying about conscientious and non conscientious people and all of that kind of stuff, or I can’t remember whether conscientious was the word was. And this is why I went down this thing of like the where it’s legal and where it’s not legal. Basically, to the actual point I was trying to make is that cannabis up until now and instead in a lot of places is considered a drug. You know what I mean? Yeah. So it’s like it’s called a drug, whereas alcohol is legal. Yeah. You know. And so I think a lot of people who are maybe that say conscientious to it may be a slightly different way to what you are talking about. Feel that, well, I can drink because it’s legal and I’m not breaking any rules. Whereas the cannabis now is going to become less like that. But in general, and certainly when we were young, other than, say, Amsterdam or something like that, it’s something way. It’s illegal. You’re going against the grain.

You’re rebelling. So it’s maybe people who are slightly less worried about that kind of stuff, funnily enough as well, is that you will always hear the same thing in Amsterdam, the actual local population who are consuming cannabis seems to have gone down yet with since the legalization and during the legalization and even nowadays. So the main people that are smoking are obviously tourists. So what does that say? You know what I mean? Because it’s like it’s no longer a rebellious act. And for some reason, that’s making less people smoke, apparently. I don’t know whether that’s just as simple as that. But yeah, it’s interesting. You know, all of those kind of things play into play into it. The legal and non-legal, the rebellion, the non rebellion. I don’t know. I had lots of kind of friends who then went down other roads. So I really didn’t want to go down, you know, and some of it ended pretty badly. And it might have, you know, this the thing you is the demonizing of cannabis. You often hear about these things about like it’s the gateway drug, you know. Yeah, it’s easy to get your hands on. And it’s often the first thing. But this is the funny thing is that while people say, well, alcohol is a drug, too. And that’s going to be the first gateway drug, because the vast majority of people are going to drink a beer before they smoke, join, drink some alcohol, smoke cigarettes, or at least for our generation here, drink some alcohol, smoke cigarette, smoke a joint.

Yeah, I remember those things happening in quite quick succession.

You know, the funny thing is, is that like the amount of people I know who would have done those three things and weren’t attached to anything else was a lot. Man, Yeah, I know loads of people who never who never went any further down the path than that. Yeah. And I know loads of people who did. Yeah, but like you say, I think the alcohol almost always. Maybe a cigarette. But I think more the alcohol was the first step into that thing. You know, so it’s a it’s an interesting one. And all this. You know, there’s so many documentaries now and everyone’s got Netflix and everyone’s watching Netflix. And there’s so many things that are more independent compared to 20 years ago when people were still just watching TV. And so that was way more controlled as well. I think, you know, like the broadcasters and then the broadcast if they’re national. I mean, even though the BBC is pretty cool and night, you know, the publicity, you know, not having adverts was pretty cool. Yeah. Things like that. But it was definitely more controlled than something like Netflix.

It was easier to control. I think it’s, well, more nationally controlled.

I mean, and the last thing I was thinking before we sort of wrap up thing is one thing I was definitely thinking has been or that we’ve had a lot of experience we could talk to is smoking weed and playing basketball. There’s a lot of playing soccer games. Like it’s not like, you know, Basketball Diaries, which is a fucking awesome book if you ever get a chance to read it, the film. So so but yeah, there’s really cases overseas. What was it, DiCaprio who is in the film? Yea, I’d have to watch that. I love your books. One of my favorite books, best low about drug use in basketball. And then I guess him becoming a writer, poet, all of that. I do know there is there’s two things that stick out my mind. One is before like doing trade. Like when we playing indoor basketball in England in the winter or actual matches, just sitting in the car park getting crazily high. Getting in there in the first five minutes you like literally like though. Yeah. You just have no idea what you’re doing. Then off that five minutes I felt like. So just like Woody Harrelson says in night, white men can’t jump like he’s in the zone. I feel like I was in the zone and kind of tunnel vision, like better peripheral vision, but also at the same time, better central focus vision or the game itself.


And both of those things and I felt like that was super good for playing basketball. And it seems like all the NBA players are all weed smokers as well.

Yeah, it’s been a huge thing of light people and bands like that.

Then I’d also remember other sports, like you got another friend alien.

There be certain summers where me and him, it just played one and one all summer if there is no one else to play with or play matches. But he’s just notoriously late. So I’d meet him in a park where we’re playing. I know he’s going to I’d say say if you say we’ll meet at 2:00 in the afternoon. I know he’ll be there probably at like 4:00. So I turn up maybe about two thirty three by the time he turned up. I’d be kind of pissed off. I had to wait so long. But you literally been training for about two hours and maybe smoked one or two joints and that you’re given got creative ideas.

If I would have already got rid of that crappy. Yeah. Like the initial 15 20 minutes or something because you smoked and you’ve already started playing. Yeah.

He arrives to play and then I’d have like got some kind of creative idea possibly given to me by the weed or enhanced rugby like round before it turns out I’m just going to practice like doing lay ups and shooting just with my left hand or you know and I just get creative ideas for different sort of little training games or games I could kind of play with myself and I’m sure the weed is enhancing that. Yeah, I.

I definitely understand where you’re coming from. It’s funny you say this the thing about the left handed, because it’s something it’s almost like something which very few people do.

You know, you have that natural tendency to to be right or left handed, for example.

But very few people spend the time working on their other side. That’s quite a creative idea in the first place, because like I say, it’s creative because most people just don’t do it. And funnily enough, I mean, I had a bunch of different coaches over over the years.

But when I was relatively young and I’m saying relatively young, I’m thinking I used to go there with James. I think I’m guessing I was probably 14, 15, 16. We used to go and play like on the weekends and we weren’t actually playing for an organized team, but we had a coach who came down and he’s the one that really pushed me at that age to learn to play with my left hand. And for example, like I’d play at the end of the training, I’d play one on one with him. But say, even if we’re playing to five or 10, he’d you couldn’t win without hitting a left handed like shot like a layup or whatever it is. And because of that, it just obliged you. And what I was gonna say is that the funny thing that relates to cannabis is a that era.

And James shout out to James, who are who I’ve brought up bunch times. We were definitely well in awe. We would go to this little park next door and we’d have a smoke. And then we go and we’d meet in the training on Saturday morning and we go and train. And it was like a ritual kind of thing. But the dude the coaches called murky and I think he was probably like North Africa or something like that, which obviously, you know, anyone is in France and stuff like or anything you like. As far as smoking hash, like a lot of hash, obviously it goes without saying comes from North Africa. And I remember he was obviously an adult when we were kids, so he wasn’t going to smoke around us, but he was definitely a smoker. And it’s no no surprise that he’s the one who was pushing me to play with my left hand or doing that kind of thing. You know, I mean, it’s like because I could smell it on him because I was already a smoker. And some of the kids roll as some were younger. But if you didn’t smoke, you might not recognize the smell. And I think he even would probably spray himself a little bit. And I was like, what you brand yourself for? And I was like, oh, yeah, I do that.

You’re when I go somewhere and I’ve smoked and I’m not supposed to smoke. It’s just a giveaway.

You know, I like not being in being a non-smoker.

I definitely don’t miss that feeling of going somewhere and having to hide it and be being high and thinking, I shouldn’t have fucking got high. And then you like, does everybody know I’m high or does nobody is saying in like a meeting as I. It goes back to that. You know, you’re on Southpark with tally right now like. It’s like I had to say that he might get high. I thought I’d just kill a little bit. A little bit. Hi. It’s late. Yeah. I was just at this meeting. I’ll just get like a little bit high.

I mean, one of my stupid is trying to hit that perfect spot because there is a perfect block and in some ways smoke too much. You really smoke too little.

But trying to get into that little little I got I don’t know if you got an idiotic cannabis story like that. I do remember actually having to go to a meeting in central London. I remember well, maybe union’s work, an American Apparel. And I’d got high. And I went to I was gonna go get the one you used to pay for, like the cheap with cash, cash in a matter of money. So I went to the bank. I put my bank card in the machine. And basically what happened is it said, oh, you can’t draw any money. And then it didn’t give him my card back. So I was like, motherfucker. You know, I mean. So I went into the bank in there and I said, look, this is my only bank card is in the machine. I’ve got to get it out to do. You know, I’ve got to get home. Your machine’s faulty like this. Two weeks ago was very, really rude. Got the manager out. These people like we can’t open up the machine. You know, it takes us and is like we just get the poster. It’s like, really crazy. So eventually they opened up the machine, went in there and there’s was three cards in there. They got eaten that day and we looked them.

And none of them were mine. And then I put my hands in my pocket and I was like, oh, my bank cards there. And I check it out. I said, you know, it’s was kind of high as well. And I didn’t think I should just carry on with the pretending it’s not there or there’s a problem. And I said, oh, sorry, it’s in my pocket. Like it’s small. It just works half of the bank and then rents another bank and got the cash out. That’s ridiculous, isn’t it. Yeah, that’s quite it’s totally stole my aim. It’s funny.

I mean not not any one particular one sort of like comes to mind.

There was definitely one thing where I would always go to the photocopiers to photocopy states for doing screen printing. And this is the one particular moment. But then my was my talley moment where I had so much exposure because it was just actually because of the environment. The place where I was going to photo copy was just like a shop, you know. And the photocopies were in the corner and you had you back to everyone, you know. And it’s like I definitely had the experience of going there and not having smoked. And it would be fine. You know, all I’m doing is just kind of photocopying. But I had to be a bit on point because I’d have to you know, I’d have a bunch of photocopies cause I’d be like about to put them on screens basically to explain it real simply. You know, I’d basically be photocopying onto acetate so I could expose screens for screen printing. So I go with the designs, but a lot of time after, blow them up, make them smaller. I might need multiple copies of certain ones, things like that. So if I went there and I didn’t smoke. Simple is the simplest tasks. But then I went in there. Like when I smoke way too much and just would you know. Back to everyone. Like how many things I’ve got to do all of that stuff. And I knew the people who worked in there. And I’d just get all that quiet, not paranoia. Like I’m super paranoid, but I just get all that crazy stuff. But then I can’t I can’t explain to you why.

But I knew that was negative and I knew it was easy without. And so I get a little bit high. Yeah. You know. And that would never hurt a little bit. It would never work. Yeah. Because you never got a little bit. Yeah. Not a thing is it. It’s funny the higher you know, high. And it’s like even though you know it’s only like going to a photocopiers, it’s not like. Why would I get high to go to photocopiers. Yeah. I got to tell you just because you’re like a total addict. Yeah, exactly.

And I think that’s what it comes down to is that kind of and this like similar to, you know, the George Carlin quote where. So where are you saying, like, as far as they can, you know, as far as they’re concerned, they can open up a window in all this kind of stuff, but dot, dot, dot at first here.

It’s like it kind of leads into that because like I said, the thing about a first is you’re right. You know you know, I don’t think a lot of time, especially with cannabis, you’re going to be go from a nonsmoker to just be a smoker all day, every day.

Smoker. You know, I mean, it’s like so first you’re doing it every now and then. And that’s a positive. Whereas when you get into that day.

If I could smoke a joint, then drink some green tea, then have like a full hot shower, then put on fresh clothes and probably eyedrops, like very jujitsu. Then I’d be like, okay, that that’s a pretty foolproof system unless they’re going to like piss test me. Like that’s at least I know there’s certain signals going out that they’re not going to know about. Talley moment could become a thing man. I think there could be. Towel is brilliant.

What a brilliant character. I know you. Good one to wrap.

Yeah, I think so. I mean, if we get back to like doing like an actual conclusion on it and because it has had a bit of bro science going in there, you know really well. Some research suggests that cannabis may enhance some aspects of creativity. The results are still just totally like up in the air. You know, it’s not there’s nothing really definitive that comes out. And the statistical relationship, teen creativity and cannabis use seems to pretty much vanish if you take into account the effect of like openness to experience and what kind of person you are as well. So here it’s pretty much unclear whether the difference in cannabis users personalities may actually account for any potential benefit beneficial effects of cannabis on creativity. It seems cannabis users may be more creative than non users, but cannabis is not necessarily a creativity booster. There’s obviously a lot more to the puzzle.

Yeah, it’s not as simple as that. Yeah. Sure. And again, like anyone who’s listening to this, I’m sure anyone who’s had any kind of experiences with cannabis could probably tell you like stories like what we did.

But more importantly, do you have any experience or anything that you can come back to us or write in the messages and in the comments about what you were your own personal experience, or even if you’ve been involved in any studies or if you’ve got any anything to say about basically cannabis and creativity?

We’ve actually got a friend who just bought out a reason, a new podcast as well, which is Golden Cannabis Conversation. Yeah. Friend Anuj. So you could actually go and check that out. Really good. Really, really good. Quite like to do some, you know, maybe talk to him about it because his actual podcast is slightly more sort of business lady. Yeah. The the business of cannabis. But yeah, I think we’ll call it a day there. And thanks everyone for listening and we’ll catch you in the next episode. See you next time.

As we mentioned at the beginning of the episode to promote the launch, The Pistache Podcast were given away around two and a half thousand pounds worth of original artwork that we’ve created, which is well over 3000 U.S. dollars worth. So to enter, go to our Web site, Pistacheartists.com, where you’ll find the full details that prizes you can win, how to enter and the full terms and conditions of the giveaway. Competition is super simple and soon it’s not gonna take you more than a couple of minutes to complete. There’s quite a few prizes, a chance of winning pretty high. You can take part in the giveaway until early August. If you’re listening to this before then you really should enter. You might win a really special piece of art for your collection. Or you could give it away as a gift and have someone love you for the rest of eternity. Good luck.

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