S1 E9 – Basquiat or Warhol?

The Pistache Podcast – S1 E9 – Basquiat or Warhol? Who was a better artist, Jean Michel Basquiat or Andy Warhol? Jamie and Nick also discuss who had a larger impact on modern culture and society. They talk about their approach to art,their influences on Pistache & how do you judge who is a better artist? We hope you enjoy this episode.

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S1 E9 – Basquiat or Warhol? Podcast Video

S1 E9 – Basquiat or Warhol? Podcast Transcript

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Hi, everyone, we’re back with The Pistache Podcast.

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All right, everyone, we’re back with The Pistache Podcast. This episode is Basquiat or Warhol, where we used to live in shared houses and had a lot of time on our hands. Pre smoked a weed, began to conversation about what was the best. And sometimes it would be about deeper subjects like Big Mac or the Whopper. Well, every time. But yeah, yeah. Yeah, definitely. But sometimes they’d be lighter subjects like who is the most important existentialist author? Can you assault or, you know, just light subjects not see getting into the quality of beef and shit like that? Kelley Yeah, basically, yeah. So yes, basically. Carrie And the what used to be a bit big. Mackie But then you didn’t have the whopper option down here. Now.

Because it wasn’t in. Well, I live on the border and now I can hear the Burger King just over the border. But there’s like and there is one around the corner from the tattoo shop and buy on this one.

Yeah. And there’s like two just near where I live. You know, basically Burger King’s taken over coming in big in France. So sometimes it’d be so rapid fire interrogations of a newcomer into a group to find out if they’re going to fit in and if they could handle the pressure be like vanilla or chocolate milkshake, like weed or hash beer or wine.

You know, like that was very much like you and Big Dan on top of it. You guys would definitely light people up with that. Yeah. Oh, as far as my memory goes, anyway, that was the more interrogation ones.

But then it would generally be like those kind of questions are quite good to sit down and smoke some weed and debate, apparently.

And like you said, just that kind of what’s best. It’s just funnier. It’s just a good fun thing. And you hear everyone’s opinion and then kind of and then you work around it.

Opinions, right? So, yeah, the Basquiat Warhol is gonna be really who’s the more important artist and also who do you prefer? Recently we did an Instagram story that we then sort of followed on to YouTube and a Twitter survey just asking people who they preferred and Basquiat came out on top by 81 percent. B Yeah, it’s quite a big win, isn’t it? It’s not like they’re the one. Yeah, it’s not.

It’s not 51 to 49 away.

Isn’t a pretty definitive. I felt that really answer the question properly needs to divide the conversation into two areas, the sort of pure art creation side of things and also the general influence of modern culture. So I guess first off, we’ll go with. Well, I don’t know. I don’t think we need to really do that much of an introduction to who they are particularly. It’s like if you don’t know who Andy warhol is or Jean michel basquiat probably don’t listen to this fucking podcast, you know?

Yeah, I think anyone who’s generally into art nowadays, you know, those is super prominent figures.

And anyone who’s very listening to this podcast and into anything so creative, culture based, you’re going to at least have heard the names. But I guess while we go through and actually talking about them, it’s going to give a bit of background details. So I’m not going to start literally like Jean michel basquiat was born in the 1960s. The thing is the 22nd December. Not even know if that’s actually incorrect, but there’s not really much interest in people listening to that. So who is a better artist? So if we start off with Basquiat, Basquiat is clearly a better painter and he used really for me, he kind of had that sort of flow state creative thing, which I definitely like if you see documentary faces or anything like that. He’s kind of read a newspaper with one hand, got the paint brush in the other hand, not even look at the painting and dancing to light some jazz or something.

You know, definitely a very go with the flow like in the moments or deed.

And that’s kind of tuning into some kind of higher level, possibly a bit like I was saying, I feel like I’m just about get to that point where the paintings kind of happen on their own. And I don’t if I’m necessarily mimicking how Basquiat painted, but that is just something that naturally works for me. So I really connect to him more just because I know that’s how I work.

You know, a lot these days, it’s a huge influence. I mean, it’s just something that just permeated like sonar kind of art experience.

Yeah, for sure. Shout out to Mr. Todd Hunter again. I think you to told Hunter is being shot out before for putting me on to Basquiat. That then said. Whole thing in motion also. I’d say Basquiat probably considered the most legendary figure in the sort of graffiti and then what morphed into the street art scene? I mean, yeah, maybe Keith Haring is up there with him.

Yeah, for sure. I guess like nowadays you’ve got Banksy would be the other person like you. You’re saying when you’re talking about it generally because if you’re going to go straight graffiti, you’ve got the names like scene. If you’re going to go straight street are you know that there’s a whole bunch.

But like you said, he’s either the one or one of you.

I think maybe him and Keith Haring are the ones that might be like legends because, well, a lot of the other people are still alive. Yeah. You kind of, you know, very mythical when you’re still alive. Definitely. I think bad.

One thing with Banksy, which I would put him in there is just because of you. I mean, obviously it’s nowadays, but just what a gigantic effect he’s had as far as just opening it up to the general public. Yeah, he’s definitely up there.

So those three are going to be some sort of Banksy episode coming in some form. So Michelle then created the same MO tag which was stands for the same old shit with his friend Al Diaz. I mean the collab with that actually ended with the same MO is dead tag. There’s a slight possibility I did some say my tagging in the Guggenheim in Bilbao, very small when they had anything yet. Almost no possibility it could have happened at the Guggenheim in Bilbao, where they had the jean michel basquiat thing. But I probably didn’t do it. And it was probably someone else. I saw it. Yeah, I just saw someone else who’d done it. I guess a little bit of background on Basquiat. That’s important. You know, he’s always been an artist. He’s a junior member of the Brooklyn Museum, which is actually his favorite museum at the age of six. So he obviously fell in love with our very early age and got into creativity.

That’s where his mom played, apparently a very important role in taking him in there and kind of getting him into it. Yeah, taking him to exhibitions, apparently shows.

He came from a poor Irish background of a crazy home. But I guess sometimes they sort of feel creativity or people and sort of get into escapism and then, you know, you get more creative and channelling kind of needing to channel actually hearing some of the time. And yeah, sometimes it becomes like an outlet self-protection mechanism. And I was reading something about this, talking about sports psychology where they’re saying your mind almost create things to take you out of the actual situation you’re in to ease the pain of what’s actually going on.

You know, yeah, I can see that. It’s kind of like taking away from reality into a different sort of realm.

I guess that aside, I would not necessarily really talk about specific E.M. having done that, but it’s quite an interesting sort of protection mechanism that your body sort of has when things get really, really crazy. I mean, I think anyone who’s been through any really intense situations in their life, when you’re actually in the moment you get that adrenaline spike and it kicks in and you can actually kind of keep things going a lot longer. And the more intense you think you can, it’s just when it eases off a bit. That’s what it can fuck you.

Yeah, it’s kind of the fall down effect to that. Like you said, you can often surpass what you thought maybe you were capable of.

But there’s often it’s like post-traumatic stress disorder. And I don’t even know if you’re allowed to call it that. Now, night’s over. You have from shell shock to all these different phases. George Carlin has a really good bit about it, doesn’t he? I love the way he’s talking about how they just change everything. So it’s sounds less so severe, but it’s obviously like a very serious issue.

And you’re talking about the same thing. Yeah, just putting a different word on it.

Yet another event in Basque as a youth that became really important in the way he actually structured his artwork is is hit by a car which is playing in the street and is about eight years old. And he suffered a broken arm and several internal injuries. And while he’s recuperating, his mum bought a copy of the medical textbook Grey’s Anatomy. For all of you out there, think it’s just a shit TV, actually. So slightly more than that.

I mean, or even maybe you think it’s a good TV show. Yeah, but that comes back to these questions where you’re just wrong. If you think it’s a good TV show that you just take a shit and sidenote I’ve never watched it. Just him if he knows shit.

And it’s funny that like we’re saying this, I mean you can hear we’re laughing and it’s so tongue in cheek and it is and it isn’t even say compared to the last episode where we’re talking about it’s all just a question of personal taste and what you like. You know, there is no right and wrong. It’s just kind of funny.

I think we didn’t go the other day. We’re standing in the garage, I think defrosting, saying in the microwave. And we start talking about we had some I had some people say to me recently and they actually started watching friends in the evening. And for me, that was quite painful. And then I start thinking, is that the worst TV show of all time that people will disagree with? And then I start thinking, oh, I think Ally McBeal is actually worse than that. And I started thinking there is actually stuff that is worse than friends. I mean, I’m guessing probably album B or might also be worse than Grey’s Anatomy.

But there’s a lot of stuff that I could even think of that’s worse than all of them.

But we I don’t know if we were then going into Holby City and. Rather than stuff like that, they even they can’t. Yeah, I know what I saw. But that’s okay. Maybe I’m just going to American. No, no. Okay.

Either way. Say here you got the textbook Grey’s Anatomy. You can see straight away that that influence a lot. The way he sort of structured characters and like he did a lot of studies of bones, body structure, overseeing in his in his style, skeleton skulls. Yes. Goes on to scholars and is also that he has a lot of those lines and crosses on actually sort of stitched up ridicule that you’re getting stitches like after an accident. So there’s a lot of little details in his paintings that did come from him having that accident. Getting that book. And then that sort of informed a whole area of his artwork. Another thing art wise, obviously added to his legacy is that he died young and so left a real air of mystery and sort of unfulfilled promise. And it was better than going out on top. You know, that’s almost the Michael Jordan comes back and plays two years for the Wizards. People like, oh, it damaged his legacy. It didn’t. Obviously, if he’d just quit after the balls, he would probably be even more mythical than it than it is now. The two years that the Wizards. Yeah, he is, what, 41 or something and averaged 80 points.

You know, he’s still an unbelievable lock down defense and yet it’s still like an amazing play.

But if he had just done the three pay cut, retired play, tried to play bass for a bit, come back on a three pay. And then like Mike, Drop would just be even better.

And it is true that like in especially artists to musicians. But again, delving into all kind of creativity, there are so many of those legendary characters did basically go down early in the middle of, you know, whether it’s really around 27. Yeah.

That 27 or any of my friends of the number nine is obviously a connected to number 90 plus 7. But yeah, there’s loads of people like who died early, died at 27. You know, you can keep on listing them. Yeah. Yeah.

It is true that there’s very if we just purity even look to artists like which artists were successful and kept that kind of thing. Right. Until old age like Picasso. Yeah. I mean it’s safe. And he’s the only one that literally comes to mind immediately. Maybe Dali as well.

Yeah. I mean I think that probably is all you might call up a little bit when we talk about Warhol, but there’s probably gonna be a Dali possibly vs. Dalio or Picasso thing might be an interesting thing. It’s almost as a slightly similar dynamic to what we’ve got going on here.

Yeah. And like we said that on top of it, just funnily enough those are two of the only guys I can think of that into old age and kind of continually. Yeah. Didn’t drop off.

Didn’t do Warhol I think where he died. Well late 50s or something. Yeah, I think so young. It’s relative. It’s like no he’s not old but he’s not late 20s or something. Yeah. He’s had enough time to sort of fill out a career. So I guess. Obviously when you think about it, that’s going to play a part in this as well. That Basquiat compressing a lot of this creativity into what, like a 10 year max sort of period. Yeah, I think that yeah. Obviously you’re still a kid, but that’s kind of former toughness. It’s a bit different, isn’t it? Like his adult life and the really strong creativity is probably even a shorter period, isn’t it. It’s like he crammed a lot into it. And I guess it also then comes down to where Nick does a lot tighter work than me, and I work a lot looser. And I guess what the benefits of working looser is, you can just get more work, the more prolific. Yeah, it’s like now, you know, worrying about tiny little details and things like that. So I mean, better or worse, it’s obviously easier to do that. But then I guess we’ll get into with Warhol as well.

Like being prolific wasn’t really an issue for him as well because of the kind of ways that he produced, as are like he could be as prolific as Basquiat probably more intellectually as the screen printing elements. Yes. And stuff, no doubt. Exactly. There’s no point really trying to explain Basquiat art style. If you don’t know what it looks like, just go and have a look online and you get an idea. Some people there’s lots people who just think he’s a shit artist, you know, you know him and don’t write him at all, which I think is just ludicrous because Vasquez paintings of you have a much higher value for just a purely monetary point of view than Warhol works. Do I think I think it’s most expensive with one hundred ten point five million dollars for a painting which as well as an untitled painting from 1982, which was purchased at Sotheby’s by a Japanese collector. Could you? Saku May was a terrible pronunciation as usual, which is actually the most ever paid for an American artist auction. Where of any artists so people can say, Oh, he’s a shit artist or whatever, but he’s obviously the most collectible American artist of all time.

So there’s a lot of great American art. Yes, like lots Warhol. That’s how Reno people are well-known. Like Pollock. No.

I mean, it’s uncovering a crazy amount of people. So if you want those people who thinks he’s not a good artist, probably just fuck off back to now.


But what I don’t understand how you can I think is still this comes back to like was saying that kind of personal preference and just what you’d like to. I mean, art is to star in this. Like whatever you like, but like you said, I think even a lot of people who are very what’s the word kind of painterly here and like technically great painters, I think still a vast majority of them appreciate his work. It’s like you said, it’s definite. It’s quite a. This is a thing where a lot of a lot of people give him give him a lot of credit.

It would be like, say, a Rothko or a Pollock, a similar weapon. I could just do that. Hope. Yes. Like it’s black. Yeah, it is. Don’t. And you didn’t. Especially at the time when were doing. Yeah. It’s game changing what those kinds of guys get. And because it sort of kind of looks simple, people think that they can do it. But that’s kind of to me. Yeah. I think that’s the hallmark of a good artist. Really.

Yeah. And you can when you’re talking about that kind of stuff, like almost coming back to Picasso again is he shows that full circle where it’s like it’s like ultra painterly, incredibly like technically good work. And then the whole kind of circular evolution going back to the child, like stay an expression and get cubism in amongst it. And all that stuff is a pretty good example of like something where you can just show that this guy could paint in so many different ways.

So I think probably just to sum up sort of the actual painting of Basquiat and how we’re saying a bit, say, with Pollock or Rothko, something like that. And when people think they can kind of do it themselves a bit and it devalues it, what they’re not understanding is the amount of work that’s gone into creating those pieces in the way in the way they are where. For me, I kind of like things in this simple because with details in kind of hide behind details and you see that quite a lot with tattooing and with eyes when it’s a very basic just lines, a very basic tattoo, there’s nowhere to hide. You see some fucked up a lot times that I could really detail touches on it. They totally fucked up the line work here. They’re not pulling your eye away from it a bit to sort of disguise it. Then I feel when you simplify it down, there’s nowhere to hide. Like if you look at a Rothko, it’s sort of colors, studies, color combinations. You’ve got just a totally mastered that to create those and to make them appealing. It is so basic in some ways that it almost comes down. Now, we always end up talking about jujitsu in some way, like every episode, but it is like the guys in jujitsu, the hicks and graces where they kind of really mastered the basics and they make the basics kind of look easy or say, Kelly Slater, you watch him surf and maybe it’s not the best example, but some of the really good surfers, it looks so easy because they’re so good at it, you know?

Yeah, definitely. They’ve mastered all aspects almost to get to that point. Yeah, well, certainly a lot of aspects.

So I guess on the pure art thing will then go across to Warhol where on the surface he might not be as expressive as Basquiat. And I’d probably prefer Basquiat work to Warhol just from a purely aesthetic point of view. I mean having said that, we went to war a few years ago on a 10 years ago, maybe something that maybe I could say. We went to an exhibition of Warhol work in a bizarrely in a local monastery sort of up towards the mountains from here. Nice setting into this period. So yeah, it’s awesome. Quite contrasting on top me up to his style and everything. I found that pretty mind blowing. It’s one of the best exhibitions I’ve ever been to. But that had a lot of his sketches. The Scream prints had life took. It had like a lot of different things and I had never seen. Yeah. Lot of stuff I’d never seen. Yeah, exactly. When that wasn’t aware of. And I guess with Warhol really early on in his career, he was doing a lot of cutting. But there’s no couple who owned like a furniture shop or something that he was working for him doing sketch work and sort of advertising things. And he sort of really generated this kind of illustrative style that if you pretty much look at 80 percent of modern children’s books, they’re all based on a style that he sort of created really early. You know, before he even got into the flow and art he is well known for. And really that sort of commercial aspect to commercial strength is showing really early on drove the whole thing with the Campbell’s soup cans and the Brillo boxes and all of those things sort of turning advertising into arcs as lips. You almost kind of what he did himself. But then he sort of unveiled this concept of pop art as sort of showcase a collection of paintings that focused on these mass produced commercial goods. And that was almost the birth of pop art. So on a purely art front, he Banksy creativity and Uk Hip Hop or.

Yeah, I guess so. Yeah, it’s a whole movement. Yeah. Or a genre.

Yeah, sure. So that’s something that Basquiat didn’t really do himself did he didn’t. No, not really. He was involved in sort of the graffiti street. Are that going into galleries, all these things. But you wouldn’t say oh he just created his own revolver. Like a year. No, I’m not sure. He didn’t really do that. So obviously that’s something that a lot of people know what pop art is. I’m assuming it’s probably the most one of the most, if not the most widely searched art genre. Probably if you go online and look at, yeah, I guess I’d say what people are looking for CSO is he can be credited with creating. Call it an art movement. I think in May very well be the best word. He will say that. And so you pray talk more about sort of reintroduced to the screen printing and to find out well before it be what, just in purity, the repetitive like technique more than anything.

For more certainly on textiles. I would have thought that on paper there would have been a wallpaper kind of movement that was getting screen printed from older kind of era, but not like pure art. Really, it is different. You know, like the thing that kind of attracted me into screen printing, I think. Thinking back now was the cause. I love the wood block prints from Japan, that kind of you know, I think that there was probably an evolution, even though this screen printing actually probably predates it. But I just like that kind of like we’re saying like that even uneven kind of textures of the workmanship and the fact that you can kind of then take something like, you know, like what I loved about it is you could do a drawing or a painting, then put that on a screen and then play around with it so quick and easily. And the fact that it’s like it’s not totally flat and uniform, just the kind of the print process in general, because I don’t think, oh, I don’t know.

You point better that the Japanese are actually screen printing. Oh yeah.

No I don’t, I don’t think so. I mean it would block stuff though I know of anyway. Yeah I know.

I mean though is the screen printing. Like I said I think as far as I know, pretty much evolved from Japan. But it was very much like for what’s the word like kind of motifs onto fabric here? I think, oh yeah.

Textiles is like putting like stuff on to literally fabric to make clothing and still is really if you think about Yungun, she’s having a screenplay or something, screen screenplay and generally doing garment screen printing, definitely art and certainly on a commercial level.

Yeah, definitely. You know, there’s like there’s there’s print workshops and places and still I guess artists that use it as a way of replicating or or as part their artistic process. But I think even a lot of the onto paper is being replaced by different techniques.

You know, over time I did like shout pictures on walls because I’ve gone there who used to screen print all the original. I think I did all the first Banksy and fail and all that artwork. And I’m lucky enough to go down there and check it all out sort of early on. By day they shut down at a certain point and start thinking about what that was quite an eye opening, sort of what could be done with screen printing. I definitely am seeing some pieces of art there thinking, wow, that looks awesome. And it’s just a hundred percent screen are just in multi laser color on big paper.

Yeah, like the earth from the artistic level. And then the other thing that’s like incredible say like just if we’re on it on that sort of screen printing and stuff was like what was happening. I think probably specifically in Hawaii. And no, again, the Japanese had a huge influence on that of like 12 color screen prints to make shirts and stuff like that. That’s down more. The workmanship. But what’s actually possible and the fact that they’re manually doing that, when you understand screen printing and you understand the amount of work that that requires incredible workmanship, you know, and when you look at specifically the Hawaiian thing, it’s obviously Hawaii is such a melting pot of Japanese and American influence also.

If you look at the shirts, it’s more Japanese.

There’s a heavy and Japanese influence. And there was a heavy Japanese presence at the time, actually within the screen printing industry for Hawaiian shirts. They were very integral.

We look. You just look at it. You know that. Exactly. Japanese stuff done with Hawaiian motifs over almost here. Yes, definitely slightly going into when we talked about it in the tattoo episode with that kind of slightly Hawaiian American traditional tattoo graphics kind of coming into it a little bit.

Yeah. I mean, it’s funny, actually. They have an odd relationship, I guess the Hawaiians and the Japanese, because there’s maybe even like we said, if you delve into it like older way, way older connections of just how old people are connected, but obviously from the bombing of Pearl Harbor. But then there seemed to be a massive presence. And then there’s that whole kind of Japanese tourist infiltrating everywhere at certain times. I’m pretty sure our mom told us about that when she went to Hawaii. I guess in the 60s, just, you know, the crazy numbers of them that were there. But certainly I’ve got a book about, like I said, screen printing specifically for Hawaiian shirts and I can’t remember names, but a lot of these print houses were were run by and started by Japanese and integrate in the Hawaiian people.

And I guess roughly if you look in the pure outside to wrap up Warhol on that, you’re really only looking at screen printing. That’s the bulk of his work on the most interesting stuff, isn’t it?

And certainly the most well-known stuff is, although I mean some of them had finished as well aren’t they. Yeah. Yeah, definitely. They read about line work and stuff like that.

When you look at it there’s like with like you said when we went that exhibition, there’s a lot of line work and different mediums and stuff involved in it. And if you’re a screen printer, you can see obviously easily what’s been printed and what hasn’t yet. I’m just on a texture kind of.

So I guess he is I guess really, if you look at it as well, say if you just take the. Marilyn Monroe. That’s a really I as more of an iconic piece of art than I’d say Basquiat ever created. You wouldn’t necessarily think Basquiat go to one piece.

It’s probably one of the most recognizable pieces of art of all time. Yeah.

I think with the Marilyn Monroe, I think it’s like 20 different versions, I think. Yeah. Yeah, I think I think roughly 20 I think.

Yeah. I think in that at least in that original, you know, proper run.

Then there’s those really famous ones with the sort of the sort of minty blue and then the pink that probably that the standout pieces and some of the Callaway is like a crazy.

The Elvis ones are cool. Yeah. I like the full body Elvis once you always maybe got a gun in his hand or something like that. I love those ones, man. I mean, there’s loads of iconic. He’s definitely done along. Like we said with the Campbell’s Soup or something like that. Those crazy iconic images. Yeah. Ours just modern art goes. Yeah.

And then that really so of goes into the whole the question of who had a bigger influence on modern culture. Right. I think it’s easier to start talking about Warhol and then go to Basquiat, see if Basquiat can sort of stack up. You know Warhol going to stack up pretty heavily on certain areas. So yeah, obviously the whole area of advertising and product. That’s how he almost created pop art by taking. Well appropriate I guess is what you say advertising and turning it into art really. And then also that sort of question of celebrity and then repeating it.

And he’s really the reference in the art world for all of like what you were saying as far as probably if we’re going to talk about influence on modern culture. Yeah. He’s the man. Yeah, pretty much.

I don’t know how far back a real celebrity goes. Like in terms of it has to. Yeah. I think you’d have to say consider it in the era when TV and radio were invented before that. I don’t really see how you can be that much of a celebrity. He also be well known, but it’s not you know, you are let out of your country or an area or.

Yeah, it was just really impossible. Yes.

It’s like for stuff to move around and to get any kind of who might really be feeding off that sort of real celebrity.

So he was right then and there on top of it in that kind of. I mean, we say he was right then and there in that important nearer. But like we said, like, you know, in decades advent of the Internet, all those kinds of things. I mean, you know, from probably that era, things have changed in such different ways in in that world. Yeah.

I mean, that’s one of the areas that you talk about. If it has a of culture, he had the whole. So it was predicting social media saying everyone’s going to be famous for 15 minutes. That’s roughly what social media is, isn’t it?

It’s an incredible vision to have had men. Yeah. Where the hell did he get that from? Yeah. You know, I mean, that’s a pretty incredible sort of idea.

Yes. Then I guess it’s because he’s tying in all these different aspects of it. And I guess if he’s sort of semi go back into the art and how he managed to be so prolific, is he at a place called the factory, which people might, you know, people are interested would know about. But he was really, I guess, an art factory, essentially.

The factories are well-chosen words. Yeah. And it’s obviously is very conscious decision to have called it that.

And some people see you then see that as a negative there being a proper artist. Also, what it does mean is that he’s actually not creating a lot of the art that comes out. So possibly as Maryland’s, he might never touch them.

And that’s also something that people really have issues with him. You know, people definitely point out these things always actually took until a good friend gave him a shout out. Phil, who we’ve met through the toll tattooing world. I was chatting with him last Friday and we actually were talking about all of this, even though I didn’t know we were doing the podcast this week on this subject. But we just randomly started talking and he was kind of talking about Warhol and how he just doesn’t dig it. And he’s one of those kind of people where he’s not anti it, let’s say, where he hates on it, but he just doesn’t dig it at all. And then he was actually talking in turn about how, like he sees kind of Keynes as the modern Warhol. Yeah, for sure.

I mean he I mean, you know, obviously it’s not the dude knows what he’s talking about as far as he’s you know he knows his shit. Yeah.

I mean he obviously then had influence on people who you would say like like Keynes specifically, he could be seen as the blueprint for artists like that’s a worker.

So that there is actually like not only is it an influence on modern culture, but it’s an influence on modern or modern art from the point of view about what you’re having him right now. Yeah. Like he’s definitely had a huge influence on what artists do now or certainly. Yeah.

You know, this who’ve done well, like I was watching something more recently on someone who I know personally. I mean, I write him as an artist, but I’m not like a huge fan of his eyes on people, which is Salvador Dali, where Dali again, I’m more interested in his persona, everything else he got involved with. I am actually possibly his actual paintings because a lot of them are quite small scale. I don’t know. They’re not.

Yeah. I’m not surprised, obviously. I mean, you’re my brother, so I know what you like that you’re not really not that not that you’re not into it, but it wouldn’t appeal to you in that kind of way. Just literally from my point of view, I actually don’t know so much about his actual, you know, outside of the. World by love, looking at the painting. In crazy or something of a liar in a small way. I don’t mind that, though.

That’s the kind of thing obviously that kind of comes down to that thing of like the kind of technique involved in doing something on that scale and what he was putting into it.

And then the trippy wall is like kind of elements somewhere, let’s say radar like, you know, we’re saying so of andy warhol create this blueprint. I think Dali probably created the blueprint more. So I don’t know if that’s something that actually should be heavily credited to Warhol because Dali spent a lot of time in New York, but the hotel he had a permanent room in I think is like every Sunday, whatever, once a week he’d just be sort of whole. People come in and talk to him about work. I don’t know if this is correct, but I think Warhol might put a piece of work into show him that Dali might have whipped his piece out and actually pissed on it at one of these meetings. But then Dali, you know, he was literally started as a newspaper, was making sure Lulu, like making films, was doing all this really hit like crazy. The Cheaper Tube’s logo and shit like that. You know, it’s super diverse and it’s almost when you look at it, almost like a pre Warhol.

Yeah, it’s funny because we were just obviously chit chatting about, you know, research that we’ve done pre pre-recorded. And this is what I mean, is it I really realized how little I did know about him outside of just purely his art work.

And when you start talking about that, like you said, it was like I was like, damn. I mean, that’s like there’s such similar ties here to what Warhol was doing.

And in top of it, if Warhol, seeing as it was in New York and if Warhol was going there and seeing what he missed. It’s not like it was an influence from a hundred years ago and an indirect influence that say where you never met him or whatever site. He was clearly close.

Not only was there a shameless self promoter. You know, he’s doing the crazy. He didn’t give a shit. Yeah. Turning up, doing crazy things like what that does mean is as an influence from being influenced Dali. You still got to do the work. So Warhol did sort of make films. There’s that stupid, boring film show. Was it one of his neighbors sleeping? It’s like like 10 hours long.

So that aside, I remember whatever.

Maybe you like it, maybe you don’t. He’s still going to feel me. Started a magazine called Interview, which I think still runs today. He had his own chat show point, which I think Dali might have possibly done as well. Know appearances in music videos. He joined a modelling agency. There’s a really good Japanese TDK commercial that he was in that it really made me think about Bill Murray’s character in Lost in Translation. It’s just for Japanese and your audience knows. Again, I think they showed a retrospective of Warhol work where some people like it’s just a TV advert. You are missing the point. It is quite artistic and it’s just very out of whole crossover and no doubt quite out of the norm.

Yeah. As far as what would. Especially at that time of being your typical you know, if you put yourself in the shoes of someone watching it back then it was very different to someone watching it now. It’s funny you mentioned about the exciting love lost. It’s one of my favourites, even though it’s in love. I love Bill Murray. Yeah. To start with. But that film, especially from having been to Japan, even though it’s set before, was way before I even got to go. It’s just brilliant. It’s fucking brilliant.

So I guess we’ll go back to the way we talked about the factory and it actually enter it wishes. So the coming together of influential people, creative minds that just having created that line must have spawned sort of more creativity than what were even going to cover here. Yeah. My favorite example of that would be the factory’s influence or one of my favorite authors, Jim Carroll, who wrote the books, The Basketball Diaries and forced entries. So during the early 70s, Jim Carrey was actually was where he’s young and a rising star and sort of crazy creative downtown scene in New York City. And he worked at the factory for Andy warhol, where you got to discuss R literature and beyond. Do people like Allen Ginsberg and Bob Dylan. So, you know, that’s just one example of so many worked at the factory. And I’m sure there’s probably loads more. I mean, Jim Carrey, quite niche. Yes.

I mean, I like but I guess a lot of people don’t know the name, but they might have possibly hoax. Wasn’t there a movie with DiCaprio?

The Basketball Diaries? Right.

But the books are awesome. They’re like, yes. I don’t I just my kind of my kind of. Yeah.

No, I was more saying that P won’t have heard his name, but they might be slightly familiar with just that one particular title. You not even due to the book but more due.

So obviously you know you then saying people like Bob Dylan just showing up. Ginsberg I mean people like that sly and the list of that just goes on is like quite an even. That’s just examples are kind of influential people turning up there and obviously there’s a whole side of it. So my Jim Carrey was actually there working on pieces of art for him. So he had recreating them here. Yeah, thing like you’re saying, like someone like Jeff Koons or our favorite mr brainwash. You know, he’s obviously doing a Warhol tribute in a lot of ways because he’s some of his works very Warhol base like the Campbell’s Soup. Ray can a lot of way. Using the blueprint again is what he’s using it again of saving, say, maybe that goes back to Dali. But then I guess Warhol is then creating a very specific blueprint.

Yeah. And like you said, what would be then when we’re talking about the influence on modern culture, like what would have been the influence on those people like in music like Dylan or Ginsberg or something? What would that have done to them that might have taken them down paths? They might not have gone down yet. Sounds like it was a crazy place. A really interesting place where I would have done to jump back in time and just kind of check out what was going on. It must be trippy.

He actually got shot there as Shelton. Right. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Shelton that I think after that shot, calm down. And, you know, video entry, it got more security here by security.

But I guess it then comes back discretionary talks a lot before is whether you’re buying someone’s work or you’re just standing on the shoulders of people who come before you and just improving on the overall thing. So I don’t think say the Dali thing. I don’t think you think, oh, Dali did all of this. You know, like is Warhol did all of that is obviously inspired by several people.

So, yeah, even if it’s like taking or being influenced, like you said or being part of it and seeing it, but he took it into a totally different realm, like a whole other step, not even one step like a whole year, but then it serves brings into question.

Can you then say a perfect example would be the year of Steve Warhol was a massive influence on David Barry, which served then influence the whole punk scene. You know, Barry actually made a song called Andy warhol and then later he actually played Andy warhol in the film Basquiat. And it kills it as well. You say it the same for multi levels, but then are you going to. Can you credit sort of Warhol with creating punk music?

Well, let’s say it’s a knock on effect. Yeah, definitely. Because like you say, well, if he’s such a huge influence on Bowie and then and then his influence on that, seeing him being like an like not only an integral but like a pinnacle sort of role in that whole movement, it’s for sure. Like you said, it seems like he I guess this is also the thing of like the sort of the effect of surrounding yourself and having a place like that where so many people are coming in and the access of it and being a melting pot and a meeting place, you know, even just statistically, you’re going to have that different effect because it’s just, you know.

Well, is the other thing. It’s a large scale, obviously can’t ignore that point is that then he then sort of takes on Basquiat serve. There’s a debate where they take someone as sort protege and is like helping out or whether he wants to feed off Basquiat notoriety. That seems to boost his own profile.

That’s another thing that actually Phil said to me. You know, from his personal opinion, he feels like. But like Warhol took people. And so we went and talked about Basquiat because he’d also been to the Guggenheim exhibition. I think that’s what we originally talking about when it all came up. But he really feels like he took amuse them and sort of left them, if, you know.

I mean, I then I say, you know, when we are looking at their Yungun home, you know, we had Koons and Basquiat at the same time and you can tie them both into obviously being heavy, heavily influenced by Warhol and a huge room of the Basquiat Warhol collaborations, which again and this is what I mean is it does come down to a lot of personal taste.

Because when I was talking, say again, bringing up Phil, we were talking about that. And that was his least favorite room in the whole exhibition. And I’m not saying is it wasn’t my favorite. I really loved it. And also because of the scale of the works and then this play of like screen printing next to something like Basquiat, we like movement almost how we work.

These guys had obviously had a huge influence on how we work like like consciously and unconsciously. Yeah, for sure.

Has nothing we’re not going to like about it.

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Like I said, whereas Phil was just like almost said he just walked in the room and out like it just did because they had they had the sort of combination of the two painting sneakers with like. They were job gains and shit. That was it’s like cool stuff. There’s like you like let’s just go everything I want.

Multi layered. Yeah. The combination basically for me it’s not like I’m saying it’s the best of both. Yeah. For me like you said because because I’m probably more still even though I’m a printer and all of that kind of stuff even then I love Warhol stuff. I’m definitely a big fan of Basquiat than I am Warhol just purely looking at the artwork because I’m a big fan of Basquiat. Like I said, I don’t think that was necessarily just from my point of view his best work yet. But they were certainly for me some of the most interesting works the Basquiat did and for me personally. On the other hand, out of all of Warhol work, those collaborations with Basquiat were my favorite sort of works of I I personally those ones are screen printed now.

I think they were campaigns. Yeah.

Well you see I think what he was doing is, is he was doing a lot of I think the fucking French words at the moment push war against things. So he was actually cutting out paper stencils and then just like loosely painting inside them. Yeah. I think be that they’re not screen print. Yeah. No they’re not. You can see the brushstroke, but like I said, I’m pretty sure that watching film and some of the things I think actually funnily enough not that this is where I’m getting it from. It’s a film, like I said. Overseas, we’ve seen lots of movies, but we’ve read lots of books, photos, more, probably the movies. But I think in the film, in the Basquiat film, when at one point in one scene when they’re paying together, think you actually see Barry playing as Warhol with paper cutouts and he’s like painting or rolling or doing something. And

Then he is quite a funny thing. He kind of like pissed off with vasculitis and you’re paying over must therefore that sort of thing. Yeah, it’s very funny.

I mean I guess we do have to have those knock on effects because that’s basically what we’re talking about. Who had a bigger influence on cult modern cult culture? Yeah. You’re saying Bowie punk movement even sort of staying in the music. He designed album covers, the Rolling Stones, Aretha Franklin, Diana Ross, John Lennon and more with that sort of scream. The hand finished details going on.

Say all names right there. Yeah. I can big in music. Yeah. I mean, if you think that those in those four and you like you said that’s like the first four that come to mind. There’s loads more.

So yeah. I mean a lot of people got to know that Andy warhol designed the banana artwork for the Velvet Underground iconic ultra iconic image again. I mean we know people are jacking that for their brands. You know, someone thought they had a really good idea with it the other day. It’s like, what, just Jack Warhol with not really doing anything with it.

There was a little a concept in there, like you said, not really.

So. I mean, that’s obviously a super famous album. Artwork is got me right up there with.

Yeah. I think that’s probably got to be amongst the most recognizable on.

Probably not my bad episode because it’s an interesting genre.

It’s here. It’s a real specific genre within art, but it’s also an incredibly eclectic, I guess, just following the music. You know, like so many different like I guess now it’s the White Album, those shows nowadays it’s less interesting.

It’s just a little icon on your own or some. So it’s not it’s not like you get a gate fold 12 by 12 inch fold out artwork with, you know, if it’s a gate vote, you’re giving yourself four sides of artwork plus possibly something on the actual record.

Yeah, it’s definitely has steadily gone downhill basically from LP to cassette C.D. just because of the format. Yeah. On the other hand, I think one thing that was interesting with the CDC is the kind of turned into that booklet, which it didn’t really. There was some of that aspects in LP where it was inside or like you said, on the other hand, the gate folding in the purely dimensional aspect of it was really interesting. An LP proceedings actually had like a lot more like that. It was more diverse. As far as like the photos of the band or if someone did want to create like, you know, you had sometimes lyrics on LP as well. But there was just I don’t know. They almost became more space on a small format.

The first thing that pops into my mind on that is Red Hot Chili Peppers, Blood Sugar, Sex, Magic Green, my favorite C.D. foldout booklet and possibly album of all time, or probably the most influential single piece of music I like. Tribe called Quest Low in theory. Led Zeppelin too. There’s other there’s definitely plenty of other things out there. Hip hop, rock, all kinds of genres. But that informed almost the style of how I like my tattoos as well.

How that was it that a little booklet with all of their tattoos and stuff. That definitely.

I think for both you and me really kind of made us want to get the tattoo is and influenced the style, especially with with Anthony Kiedis going over to. Yeah it was Hank. Hank Hanky Panky. What was his name.

Oh yeah. There’s two ways. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Right. He was going to Amsterdam. Yeah. And you know that’s like the big kind of those. Right. Native in Spain. I think it’s if it’s not a good one then it is a Mr. Hanky. I’m glad I didn’t know that.

So even if you think Velvet Underground Warhol was actually sort of the band’s manager at that time as well. So he’s deafness fingers into more than just I just did your our artwork.

Yeah. He’s probably guiding a lot of light. What they were wearing style artwork that he was behind a lot. And they’re an iconic like visually like the band is where there’s just the actual music they were creating like I mean, like style wise and stuff. There they’re a reference band.

So I guess nowadays is sort of the era of collapse. So it goes out. Question of Warhol Artworks appeared on pretty much every product you can imagine. It’s kind of almost ridiculous. It’s not even say Basquiat has, but it’s more genre hip hop street where you that Warhol is gonna be on your grandmother’s tote bag that she does a shopping on and it’s going to be on all kinds of products. It’s not even. Yeah, it’s so much. It’s so everywhere and I wouldn’t even fucking notice it or my stick kind of just fade into the background. So I guess. Summarize Warhol influence on modern culture. You got the factory is all the people that are going in and out of that. His influence on obviously the music, films and TV, the commercials, the ANC magazine products and collaborations and then also that sort of prediction of social media and almost. So setting the grounds for that is really. Social media is almost that kind of screen printing duplication. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Production repetition.

Yeah. Like you said, the like the 15 minutes of fame thing. So even that there’s elements that pre-date the social media and the Internet, even just TV reality. Yeah, like reality TV. Sorry it put it that way to put it. You know, people basically Big Brother or things like that where all of a sudden anyone just goes on and they do become literally a star 15 minutes. So then it dies. Yeah. And then they’re gone. Yeah.

Yeah. I guess we’re interesting. We’ve had I guess if you look at Pistache, we had moments where we had videos from YouTube hit up, say like a million views or something like that. We’re now YouTube so saturated, you got to do quite well to have a video that hits up those kind of levels. So we definitely had pockets where certain things really take off and you get to a point where a lot of people have seen it or come into contact with it. But things would get less. So reaction and less engagement. So it’s still similar for us. The sort of evolution of what we’ve done.


So we said like when you kind of going back to it, when you were saying about him being in that particular time linear or kind of pop culture and all of that kind of stuff was like we said, even if you just look at it from our era in our age group, having the idea of having lived pre telephone and we finish school basically pre telephone. Re mobile telephone. Pretty much. Yeah. Sorry. So pretty mobile telephone. I had one friend, I think he had a mobile school, for example, until we’re 18. The pre internet. All of that stuff. It seems crazy. But then it’s it’s one of these things which you just not it’s a knock on effect. You know, I mean it’s like, do we go back to TV? Do we go back to the telephone radio call? Yeah. The way your printing press. The printing press. Exactly. It’s like each thing you realize. I think it’s just it’s accelerating so fast at the moment.

That’s probably more kind of what’s happening now. A days is that things are going so quick compared to before. The evolution was probably a little slower. You had years and years where there was TV for there was to find the nose on the phone, the Internet. Yeah. Yeah. It’s gone quick.

So I guess time to look at Basquiat sort of impacts on modern life. I guess the question be did he have a similar effect that can compete with Warhol?

Look Warhol at a pretty complete impact on modern cars are trying to hard act to follow. Yes.

So I guess if we look straightway at sort of music that’s obviously saying Warhol so dabbled in and not necessarily music creation as such, but like we said, work and then develop on the music.

I mean Ari Basquiat was more actually experimental, probably outside or going into music where he had what was called an industrial ah noise band. Is that why they called it? I think that was the genre. I wrote what he called or how it’s been described. It was actually called Grey after the Grey’s Anatomy. Like I said, not the TV series textbook. The textbook. Yeah. So he was creating music. He also. I mean, it’s like you and I favorite bits of TV to to watch is he’s in the music video for Blondie’s song Rapture. Like right at the beginning. It just seems it’s kind of.

Yeah, it’s got a lot of impact. Was Fab five freddy in that as well. Because I mean I know obviously she literally in the song they’re rapping about him and stuff, I think he appears and it doesn’t mean I don’t want, you know, a career if he does, but I think it’s supposed to be fab five freddy he couldn’t and then maybe Basquiat Sydney and if they were friends obviously and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. And there was something about paying the backdrop as well in it. And like I thought Fab Five May might have actually done next. He was a graph. Right.

As well I dig know that whoever is supposed to be an in show where Vasquez wasn’t in it and Basquiat and went in. I think Debbie Harry whatever I think she actually bought Basquiat was the first person I ever bought Basquiat painting like 200 dollars or something like that. So was he also tied in to that then?

And that was a big song. Yeah. You know, I mean that was like an integral song for exposure of hip hop. You say, for example, to the masses. You know, it’s a big moment in my mind.

Fab five freddy is not an Basquiat, isn’t it? And now we’re sitting here talking about it, just not sure.

And like I said, obviously the name comes up. It’s in the lyrics and stuff. So maybe just in my head, I thought I saw him, but just kept getting confused. But I’m sure that, like I said, I’m sure I heard something about like that kind of graphic background that I think the fab five freddy did it. But I’m not sure if anyone could tell us. Let us know.

The interest in interest in yourself. That was quite iconic. And this was pretty much considered one of the most sought after records in hip hop because of Basquiat connections in contemporary art history. Is Ram WILLESEE versus Kay robes. Nineteen eighty three twelve inch cool beatbox, which is actually co-produced by Jean michel basquiat and featured is original sort of iconic artwork and a lot tons of U.S. exhibitions work. I have a copy of that there as well. I think they did a reissue recently called him who did it with a black cover with half a half black half white vinyl. Then reproductions of the artwork, CFC co-produced it and he’s got his artwork on it as well.

So where he was right then, like we were saying, if you’re talking about again, jumping back that thing of the era and what was happening when you’re around and obviously as people now say, listen to any of the previous episodes, hip hop was a super important part of us growing up and everything like that. And he was right there like someone like MLC or you know, there are all these people are iconic figures. And he was in New York at the time when that shit was happening. Yeah, you know, like you said, like with with Blondie and and just everything that was going on, it was pretty crazy. Important time as far as music and hip hop was something I didn’t actually think about.

Obviously, it had a lot of writing kind of poetry style things as well. I didn’t even think about was prepping us. But obviously and going into that and at the beginning of hip hop, he’s doing graffiti is like producing and participating in the music and writing sort of essentially lyrics, you know, poetry and stuff. He’s pretty much shown covering all the bases of initial hip hop minus probably be boy.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, sure. He’s definitely like an integral part of it. Yeah. Even though he probably often isn’t actually included in when they talk about hip hop and stuff, you know, I don’t think he probably. And then like we said, if we talk and knock on effects for the knock on effects of actual hip hop movement and just literally like how it’s made and everything. The effect that had on music and modern music and genres and stuff is crazy. But again, we’re not so. Yes. He didn’t create hip hop for something, whereas some of these things we’ve Warhol and I think we’re like you say when you’re comparing them like again, whether Warhol had an influence from someone else. But he was really kind of creating genres almost in pop art or something, whereas like I said, like Basquiat was a part of the hip hop and graffiti scene and stuff.

So there’s definite comparisons would be made there then I think possibly Basquiat made it a bit better, the whole film TV sort of thing, then maybe Warhol did it. I mean, he’s a more interesting character to just look at and get interviewed.

And yeah, I think that documentaries like Radiant Child and that was incredible when they finally released that because that lady had that had the images and. Yeah. And kept them for herself. She one of his girlfriends. Yeah I think so. And she just held onto them and really I guess because especially after he died she was sort of saying that she really didn’t want to kind of be seen as someone who was kind of cashing in. So she kept it because she did have that ultra personal relationship with him. And then when that dropped, like we said again, probably, what, 10, 15 years ago, I’m guessing that documentary came out. Man, like I said, I just went to the cinema. I saw it just went back the next day. Just saw it again. I mean, if anyone hasn’t seen it gone, check out yet. Radiant, radiant child.

I guess there wasn’t a lot of people. I think he got quite upset with a lot of people cashing in when he starts to get a name while he was still alive.

Yeah. Yes, their work.

But then they were going to get upset about it and then like whatever.

I mean, that that kind of like, you know, when you’re talking about it. Did he or did he not have that kind of feelings towards Warhol? Because apparently they didn’t talk for a good amount of time. And I have heard and, you know, comes up in books and films and stuff where apparently he had he did. He did definitely have a bit of an issue. Warhol and felt like that. But then I think they before he died, I think they kind of made up that. I think so.

So film and TV. He was a Basquiat, a regular, an art writer, Glenn O’Brien’s public access TV show called TV Party, which I don’t think I’ve ever actually seen.

But now there’s clips of it and something I say I’ve seen show. I’ve seen clips. There’s ones I’ve definitely seen images of him when he had the kind of Mohawk, when Basquiat had a Mohawk kind of cut.

I’ve definitely seen clips of that. Was it a reverse Mohawk? I think what might have been that you have that might be in the middle. Yeah, that’s the most. Yeah, that’s from that show. I’m almost positive. Again, I don’t know what documentary or what we actually see. A lot of it just didn’t actually know realized that’s what the show was.

But then that guy, Glenn O’BRIEN, he went on to make a film called Downtown 81 which stars Basquiat pretty much playing a character.

Well he just planted the photographic photographic characters, this one wandering around, painting and doing what he does, which seemed super.

I like that as well.

Yeah, it’s cool film and good music and good like know just generally when we’re talking about these things. Is that each time when you’re saying he had more impact in that? I think it’s more that he had an impact on stuff that we really liked. Yeah. Whereas I think if you’re actually going to compare it still, like you say, if you’re gonna talk about, say, film and TV, well, maybe not so much film, but on the TV and that includes advertising and stuff. And so then Warhol effect on that was huge. Whereas when we’re talking about downtown A1 and stuff it’s like yeah it’s kind of like why I was saying with the pop culture versus the hip hop thing where one almost creates it and the other one’s like just a part of it. When we’re talking about outside of the painting itself, influence on called.

Like most people, he’s sort of like Basquiat. I don’t even know what downtown 81 is, I guess. I think the majority of people are like, Oh, J.C. hung Warhol in his baby’s bedroom or some shit. So now I like it because as a Reebok collab shoe and all these things that are way more current than, say, a Warhol collab shoe or something, I can’t see that people would be that fucking excited about it.

You know, I mean, like, yeah, I mean there was an element to Warhol I think of maybe a slight saturation because of how prolific and the way is not going to play out of streetwear culture.

And then like we may go back to the skate fashion episode and how so streetwear is coming to dominate sort of high end fashion or that Basquiat is gonna be in that world much more than Warhol. Yeah. And that’s definitely fair to say. All the static of that I think. So important. Yeah. With modern culture, the street band are, you know, their Sydney like you said, they are their influence.

It kind of comes back that Warhol and the punk thing. Yeah. And then even his iconic haircut. The glasses. Yeah. They you know, I’m sure they’ve had a huge influence on the kind of modern thick framed glasses stuff.

He’s one of those people, one of the few that was kind of iconic Lee known for wearing those sort of things, you know.

So I think, you know, like there’s definitely like a back and forth on a lot of these kinds of things. You can choose one person who did that. And then it’s like they’re both so influential for sure.

So I think as far as production collapse go, I think Basquiat, it’s less prolific. It’s less on everything. I think it’s more targeted. And I think what it is, is that having much more of an impact.

Yeah, it’s kind of maybe slightly less mainstream as far as like global influence, but it’s maybe had a higher influence on specific younger things here and already like you said, like at the moment. For sure.

Yeah. So current generation, some kind of conclusion is that on the surface and I realize initially ask myself the question I thought is gonna be quite easy, that it is going to be sort of Basquiat all the way as a painter or as an artist and Warhol as they’re kind of having a greater impact on society. Yeah, I thought I was just asking a question that had a sort of obvious answer and in some ways. But when I think about, say, going to the Basquiat, the Guggenheim by my favorite exhibition of all time, but say the Warhol in the Abbey is still top 5, possibly in my second favorite exhibition of all time or third favorite. It was incredible. Yeah, it’s right up there for me if I just think off the top of my head. I mean, obviously we talk about these two artists now, so it’s harder to just think about all the art exhibitions I’ve been to and what touched me. But I know those are just really right up there.

So, yeah, once that kind of the only other ones that I can think of, like literally and we’ve been to a lot of exhibitions, you basically when you are college and stuff, you’re basically doing nothing. But but we’ve been go into stuff since childhood, yet our parents taken us in different cities, different places, different exhibitions. We’ve seen a lot. And like you said, those two stand out for me. And literally, not surprisingly, because it’s coming from me. A floating world exhibition of Japanese. Lockhart was another one. And actually, funnily enough, like one which kind of brings this kind of back in that thing of like I remember the first time I saw any Coombs work. And I’m not even like, to be honest, I’m not a crazy fan. I can’t even remember exactly what piece it was, but it was like this gigantic piece when he was doing that kind of like layered painting stuff where it was it was in a really big museum in London. And when you got distance, it looked like a photo. And then when you go up like each kind of color separation was a layer of color was like 10 to 20 centimeters there. You know, just to see in the flesh, I’d seen a photo of it. I would just be nice. It just looks like it was a balloon or, you know, one those kind of balloon characters he was doing. And this kind of leads into this Warhol thing of like, how much of it did he do? Yeah. Did he do any of it? How important. Exactly. But the concept and actually in real life, when you’re in the gallery seeing it, that was a work that stood out to me like big time, you know.

So I’ve had definitely pieces like, say, Picasso’s Guernica, seeing that image red and a certain piece of artwork that definitely stand out, the Picasso one in Barcelona.

You know, that little Picasso museum where it’s all just sketches, you know, it’s all stuff early work. Yeah, I really do. I really like that. I kind of like that. I prefer if it’s Barcelona, I say the Miro Hartley Merritt Foundation or wherever the Hill, they’re by the stage. That’s the best thing in Barcelona. That’s incredible. That’s right. The museum. Mira, beautiful.

And then in New York, remember saying I think it’s at the Met. They had lots of Roscoe’s going in there. The way it was that definitely left impression either way. Like Basquiat at my favorite exhibition, Warhol still top five. And a lot of these other things. I think I’m not even really referencing solo exhibition so much, so much more pieces of art. Yeah. Yeah. That’s why I was going to say looking at the Warhol stuff going up close is kind of interesting because we do screen printing and painting and all that. Both them used actually a reasonable amount of like. Flu I paint. Which then you can’t really print. Very well in books. And you know, it doesn’t photograph well and you can’t read my dad. He did a reproduction of a Basquiat for me. For what, birthday? Right. Being 30th even longer ago. And that obviously done it from the book. So when we actually got to see the painting, it had actually flew. I painted it. I didn’t realize it just on the pinks and the oranges, in whatever tones they looked like in the book. I did the same with some of the Warhol. When you see some of the big prints, they’re really vibrant. Yes, super vibrant colors.

That’s something with screen printing. Obviously, being a screen printer is like and I would sure Warhol would have been doing that. It’s like you’re mixing up your own pigments. Probably not that many painters certainly in the modern era would have make mixing their own paint. But it’s slightly different because especially from the whole thing of like the paint, the pigments being used, the screen printing on textiles is something which you can certainly from my experience, like if I want a vivid read, I can scream print a vivid red better than I can paint it. You know, I mean, and it’s partly because of the process of mixing it, the pigment and the process itself. Because it’s thicker, you know. But you’re kind of like the way that you’re covering and pulling with the squeegee, it kind of gets this kind of coverage, which is hard to attain. And you basically, you know, you’re there screen printing, maybe say if you did four or five pools see equivalent of having painted like five layers to get that vibrant color, you know, so in the Warhol kind of side of things. I mean, it’s funny because you really like when you’re working in general using flew. Oh. So that’s obviously something personally which you’ve been attracted to and like outside of maybe those guys influence. It’s a graffiti thing as well. Those vibrant colors and spray cans.

Also you can get some really vibrant color with spray cans and then the whole flew out in bright colors is a large part of graffiti are what I do like is that Basquiat and Warhol as they put like enough pure black and things and there’s enough black as white, not a fan of his paintings or there’s not enough black in it because the black just pops color out like crazy, doesn’t it? It’s like a low impact of black. Is here different to any other color? Same with tattooing. I don’t like tattooing when the lines are too thin around color, you need kind of a black line to then get that color that it’s working with to really pop. And I find I don’t like things that don’t have a maybe any black or enough black. That’s always an important thing. And both of them definitely fulfill my sort of need for blackness.

I mean, Black’s an interesting one as well, just from the point of view of that. Like, again, from my screen printing education and going to art school and stuff.

Is that when you’re mixing blacks is always a color base to it and generally they’ll be red, purple, blue or green. Those are the kind of colors that you mix blacks from and there’s always a color base to it. And I don’t know about like what you’re saying in the book. Often like a photo I those kind of other kind of processes, you don’t see it. And this is something in tattooing, which you’re you know, you often hear and I mentioned about, say, the narrow black and Japanese tattooing, which has that bluey green kind of tinge to it, or the whole generally black tattoos turning slightly blue ish. Yeah. That’s because of the way that the pigment is made. And what I mean say is it’s it’s a unique color from that point of view because it’s the only color where you could have other colors kind of in it. You give it the depth, you know, and that depth part of the reason why that depth is hard to attain with any other color. I mean, obviously, purple is, you know, a mix of two colors. So you can have it heavy. I wanted another color. Yes, but it’s not purple and you can have a heavier influence. But you have to mix those two colors, whereas black doesn’t have to have them. You know, it’s it’s a very diverse lot. People aren’t really aware of that. You know, I don’t think and don’t, like you say, put enough importance to see it quite a lot.

That’s an old 1950s section that sprayed black and the guy who sprayed it like quite a lot of purple and blue.

That was Andy, right? Yeah. He’s an amazing. Yeah. That is amazing. Alex with one. Very impressive. And like me, who is in into colors when, like you said, or even someone who isn’t into colors. That’s the difference is it is not just the aesthetic of the car. Obviously, the curves and everything are incredible. But that color just gives that car an aspect which no other color.

And if you look at it, it’s black. It’s not like it’s not about dark purple or it’s black. Being seen as a purple or something in it. Yes. Yes. Cars are interesting because they get that reflective kind of.

Yeah, that’s it’s. That’s what I mean. It’s that tinge of a bit of light and reflection on it. And obviously cars have the generally light not matte even though you love your matte black cars, you know that that glossy nurse definitely gives a reflection, increases that aspect of the other color coming or the base color coming through. We’ve been talking about black paint for a while.

So I mean, I guess people who as I said, the question. The Andy warhol was a bit of a sell out the thing, but I just selling out to me just means nothing. I’m like, look, I mean, what’s what’s the issue with it? I mean, say, if you look at things as a business. Most businesses, you’d build a business at the height of the business, you’d probably sell it. It’s kind of logical selling out in a lot of ways.

There is that aspect, I think that some part of some people see as their baby, their creation, and they’re worried about what’s going to happen with it. Like you said, a lot of iconic people who we’ve mentioned before say someone like Sean Stacy selling Stasi or virtually all those things have been done. And the person obviously it changes their life from A to Z because of the amount of money, just literally that you’re going to do and then that. But that’s the thing is it is not just the money. It’s like, what does that money allow you to do?

You can then go and create something and maybe a lot of the problems that you had before because you needed to make money. You don’t need to anymore. So you can really go off on a purist like Sean. This is a perfect example with his going full circle back to just shaping boards and he doesn’t need to sell them. Yeah, you know, I mean, so he can create whatever he wants. He can do one board instead of 50 or something. You know, like you said that that idea of the set out and stuff. And I.

Yeah. So I mean the quote on that, he said that good business is the best art.

Like is his quote. That’s a funny.

A lot of times I think it’s kind of cheaper than those kind of people are just trying to fuck with people as well aren’t they.

Yeah. I mean he was a smart dude. Yeah. I’m sure he’d be doing it to win people up. I mean, to be honest, I think the basket did a lot of stuff to win people. He had that kind of cheeky character. You can see it come through and all those things. He’s definitely like that famous bit, actually. Again, it makes me think of it in the Basquiat film, where it’s the Christopher Walken character, you know, is interviewing him here. And yeah, I think in the radiant child, you actually I think it’s the radiant child. You actually see the interview, the real interview and the way that he’s fucking with the journalist, that stuff, you know, he’s just winding the dude up and he’s like, it’s just I like watching that kind of thing. It’s funny. It’s intelligent. It’s kind of amusing. You know what I mean? Probably not for the gym, but for the viewer, I guess.

How is R commerce, all those kinds of things? Because you get the art of war as the war of art, which is another interesting work. And then, you know, there’s kind of art to everything in certain ways. But I guess that’s why we had this question that if I had to still then sort of break it down for me, I’d still write Basquiat and product like a painting. I’d rather have it back an artist straight up. If we’re talking about the piece of art. Yeah, I could choose any piece of a Basquiat irrespective of value. I’d rather have one of his pieces hanging on my wall than a war that my choice of Warhol.

Yeah, I must agree. I would as well. And that’s coming. Like I said from a yes. From someone who appreciates Warhol in a lot of different realms, just purely from being a print maker in a lot of those things. But I’d still go for the Basquiat like. Yeah, 10 times out of 10.

And then the other one, the impact on culture going to have to go with Warhol.

Really? Yeah. The way we were breaking it down. He’s had such a gigantic here. Like we said, if you get to choose any artist, you could compare him to anyone. And I don’t think you’d find someone who probably had a bigger impact on common kind of cultural.

And then that almost the factory, all the things that cultural things that came out of, I guess I’m not totally out of that, but inspired by that.

And then music, he pretty much dominates Basquiat unlike Basquiat. Yeah. Blondie Ramsey. But then you like with Warhol to go small in comparison.

You know the Rolling Stones. John Lennon. That’s definitely Aretha Franklin.

I mean, yeah, like film and TV probably roughly balances out. Yes, a unneeded light smashed in films or television.

Having said that, you know, I think recently you say the Basquiat film documentaries and raising your child probably done better than I think it like what I was saying to you earlier.

I think it depends whether you include the kind of advertising into that. In actual fact, it wasn’t so much TV advertising that Warhol was kind of had a huge impact. It was more than just the visual like kind of logo post, the kind of style thing.

So I think I guess he made it a crossover of advertising and. Oh, you really are in advertising.

Yes, that’s what I mean. It’s more than ITV. It’s not TV advertising. So, yeah, no, that’s for sure it is.

And it isn’t. It’s just advertising as a whole global thing. Yep. Visual advertising really isn’t it.

Yeah. Nice. I think you’re probably right on that. If he did kind of like we say not beat him or surpass surpass him in anything. It’s definitely more parable if not especially with nowadays. Basquiat had those Basquiat kind of films, documentaries and those aspects have had a big impact.

Maybe another survey to do is actually a guy in the street somewhere random and ask 100 people if they know who Warhol and Basquiat are. I mean, that’s obviously going to change if you where you go here. I guess you only go almost to the most remote places, the most backward people you can find and then ask them and see if either of them I work here.

I would guess if they knew anyone, it would be andy warhol, I reckon.

Just the name. I think that there is a much higher chance of that. I think you’d have the most, highest chances. They wouldn’t know who the fuck there are. Yeah, but if they get to know one of the two, especially the more far out you go.

I think the andy warhol would be.

Yeah. Would be the one. And probably also if you showed them images of the iconic Marilyn Monroe for example. Yeah. Do you recognize they say that the Basquiat title that’s all for the crazy money is pretty one of the most recognizable pieces.

Yeah. No comparison. I don’t think. No comparison.

So I guess it’s kind of a bit of a sort of yin yang style that goes to pieces of a complete puzzle radio. And that obviously is interesting that they did then collab and their whole thing is so intertwined. It makes it more of yin and yang for me just on a total sort of tangent.

Even though we were kind of wrapping it up with that is there’s a lot to talk about.

Those guys were in a relationship as well because both were quite well known for kind of having gay homosexual tendencies and that they were. There’s also a lot of talk of when you’re saying about like Basquiat or Warhol that he was using him like as far as R Nat stuff or whether it was actually just a relational like a quite a deep relation and maybe that relationship. Yeah, I actually went a bit further. A lot of people seem to think it did.

But again, I’m not saying anything that said it definitely did. Yeah. No. Exactly. Yeah. I’m also quite interested to make out a lot of people I really like seem to have quite a lot of gay tendencies. Yeah, interesting. I like say UK commissioner as well, someone like em to certain points, but I guess that makes them even probably more current.

It’s kind of a strange thing to say, but it’s kind of like combine in that yin and yang, kind of the female and the male. When you do have those tendencies, you kind of spectrum’s a bit broader, especially if you know that someone like Basquiat where he was well known for having a lot of girlfriend. I mean what he went out with Madonna, he went out with all types of people. I get so especially when you go into that where you sort of lean both ways. Yeah. You could say it just adds more diversity. I mean, there’s no more influence. More.

More of that country. Finish it off by saying that sometimes you just gotta blow someone’s.

Well, that’s there.

Is it or not? I think so. Oh, no. All right. I think that’s the episode rap. We’ll see you next time. Yeah. Though. Thanks for listening.

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