Pistache Podcast #4 – Marvel or Star Wars? Is Star Wars losing popularity? Is Marvel now taking over as the #1 Franchise in film history? Jamie and Nick talk about the past, present and future of both Star Wars and The Marvel Cinematic Universe. They go a little bit geeky on some of the details, but it should be enjoyable for both the casual and dedicated fans.
The Pistache Podcast #4 – Marvel or Star Wars – Video
Marvel or Star Wars? Episode Transcript
This transcript of the Pistache Podcast Episode 4 Marvel or Star Wars has been generated using artificial intelligence, so it’s not perfect at this point. This is only episode 4, but we think this transcript is getting a lot better already. Let us know what you think?
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The big question would be is Star Wars losing popularity as Marvel now taking over as what we would consider as the number one film franchise of all time. So the Marvel center massive universe or the MCU as it’s known really started in 2008 with the release of Iron Man. There’s been some films based on Marvel characters before that most of them aren’t like exactly a great. You can go back and have a look. There’s a terrible Captain America film as well. Dolph Lundgren is semi cult version of The Punisher. There’s Louie Lou Ferrigno as I pronounce. So yeah the TV series The Hulk was kind of quite bad ask but they had I think with the Hulk. He was originally called Bruce Banner and then they thought that his name was Bruce was slightly too gay for the era. Then they changed it to David Banner for some of the films. Yeah. So that kind of complicates things yeah. So they put out quite their content early on that wasn’t great. If you looks at Japanese Spider-Man. So no I don’t think so. It’s a good thing in anyone’s out. I know you did.
You showed me some of it actually. Now you say Do you remember.
Yes anyone who wants to see something that is so shit is good. You know I just think if you just go on YouTube and probably just type in Japanese Spider-Man you’ll see what were those other Spider-Man movies that we used to watch when we were young so the Hong Kong thing and Nicholas Hammond right there. I guess they’re seven.
The music was like full long wild wild man the funk. Yeah. Drop in some pretty good funk loving them when we were kids. Yeah for sure yeah. Though there was Eric pretty decent weren’t they. I mean if you go back and look at it now probably looks awful if you compare that to Spider-Man into the spider.
Slate It’s definitely a different level of sort of creativity and yeah that’s pretty much what it boils down to now is that you know until what are cool digital law and digital filmmaking till it reached a certain level of sophistication it was gonna be way too difficult to ever do the sort of Marvel films any kind of justice.
Yeah. Just technically I guess it’s just such an issue and I mean again these kind of things like we said I mean we might have like some of the movies some other people did in some of the ones we thought were shit some other people thought were good those Iron Man ones. I don’t know. There was just something cool about it and it was kind of a bit of a return for for what’s his face. Robert Yeah. Robert Robert Downey Junior and it’s just like I don’t know say specifically for us as well he’s down there listen it’s like suicidal tendencies Yeah the music’s on point the way they did it just totally changed the genre.
Well that was what became that was the first film of the that was called the Marvel Cinematic Universe okay. And that was directed by Jon Favreau who as well who took him out star was he’s now moved over and he’s going to be directing the man Lori and which is a new series. Yeah the TV series he’s gonna be I think him and a guy called Dave for Loney his will say he was the creative genius behind the clone wars which people really liked about the TV series. So the two of them are sort of working on them and Laurin together. So possibly you know I could. That sounds like a good idea. Yeah it’s a good start isn’t it. Yeah I mean so yeah I mean as far as Marvel when they’re used before the MCU the films generally garbage some of them so garbage they’re actually funny some of them okay ish in it’s sort of niche nothing credible there’s quite a lot of decent animation like if you flick through going to Depp says some pretty good dunno if it is called Ultimate X-Men but there’s a pretty good X-Men TV series that was really comically and then yeah there’s been some pretty decent sort of actual cartoons in the cartoons that always had the thing where it’s kind of people just have assumptions that it’s just geared towards children. Right. And yes sort of geeks as children and comic geeks at the point were the only people watching the X-Men cartoon and the cartoons is obviously a totally different ballgame trying to represent somebody like that and a cartoon compared to a film.
Yeah. Like we said technically it’s just it didn’t need the modern era like filming techniques and stuff I mean although I haven’t said that I mean animation as well as something has to evolve.
That night my spider Spider-Man into the Spider verse like me and my sons literally favorite thing to watch at the moment the animation is incredible the story’s just Riddick see on point. It’s just really got to many levels but I think I don’t know that you have to fact check this but I think it was probably the worst grossing of the light. Despite my film recently but for me I was like it’s by far the best. But I think there’s just an assumption out animation so kids go and watch it was a sort thing but for me anyone who hasn’t seen that I definitely recommend it.
I’ve heard a lot of people saying a lot of good things about it. Funnily enough you know like I listen to like Brendan Schaub Swan and he’s because he’s got a son who’s about your age and your age.
He’s got some things about your sons. Yes. And he loved it. And he Scott said the same thing is what you had to say.
We’re listening to the soundtrack like it’s got like obviously things we’d like in it like graffiti you know Miles Morales the second Spider-Man I guess would be the quickest easiest way to sort of cover that. You know he’s like wearing Air Jordans just got laser cultural reference points you know there’s like big plane like big tracks in it and like the music all of it’s just really well done it feels like it’s actually been made by people who actually like love what they’re doing. I think that’s what makes a difference to these things in a day flying with Clone Wars you see it’s just he’s probably one of the top two or three experts in Star Wars lore and everything that you’re ever going to find so you like. Well of course you get someone like him to make claim was because he isn’t it’s just that he’s just not going to make it shit. So almost impossible you know. Yeah so that’s kind of an introduction to the MCU. I don’t know how many people need a real introduction to style it seems kind of ridiculous but I mean that started in 1977 with the release of what was called Star Wars at that point which then I think at a certain point it got rebranded as new hope episode four. And I think there’s even really early edits. I think some were saying even two weeks into it being in cinemas. George Lucas was going in re editing some sound and tinkering with it and he’s gonna be saying we’ll end up talking with because his tinkering has made some people happy and really pissed off some other people like the purists.
The original trilogy and the issues of that and obviously that became just an instant cult classic I guess back in the days where when something was really big in the culture it was so much bigger than it could ever be today. There’s less competition. It’s not going up against nowadays people are going out shooting films that are incredible on their iPhone and stuff getting into cinema. So you know not competing that you’re only competing with other really big budget things. It was obviously just so different that it was just it was massive.
And I guess technically it was like leaps and bounds kind of ahead of its time to a certain extent like you know what they were doing with a lot of stuff that had never been seen before.
Yeah I mean it is it’s never been so in some ways since I guess it’s like a lot of things where you know what they probably broke a lot of the barriers in. Is that true sort of more like the sound technologies and stuff like that and they had Lucasfilm doing loads of behind the scenes. Yeah I mean they definitely broke boundaries and a lot of ways but you know they’re still building on things. The thing is stands out for me is Stanley Kubrick’s Space Odyssey. You know I think I was made in like 1969 some Caroline wasn’t it. You look at it like well it still looks totally faultless and I mean this might be into another episode but that’s what definitely makes me think that we still haven’t landed on the moon. You know I mean it’s like when you look at Kubrick stuff and then you see the tie ins where they say he then just generated a lot of the footage and then there’s you know the little kid in the shining wearing the jersey that connected in the Apollo missions and right lots of little details.
But I think that’s probably yeah that’s a to say but yeah enough to say Star was obviously bright new boundaries and so storytelling probably so much like Michael Jordan where he had the kicks game alongside the basketball star was had the film thing along with like the merchandising and all the branding and everything was just on another level that people hadn’t seen seen before and groundbreaking. Yeah I mean especially if people like our generation it’s like I mean there are other things that kind of I wouldn’t I wouldn’t say one about the other but saying like back to the future just comes into my mind a song is just amazing at the time you know we’ll probably do a full episode on back to the future because a lot of things like in that as far as you know the script a lot people call it the perfect script and people study film school and I read it for just us personally kind of is the thing that kicked off our kind of almost love for skateboarding in a crazy way.
I was like four years old or something and then I think we mentioned that before then we were all of a sudden gone home and just trying to skateboard on you know that kind of maybe be up there.
It’s still not not in the same way for me.
Like you said the merchandise and all of those kinds of aspects of it the I don’t remember was there.
I mean maybe it is back to future toys. I don’t know. I’ve never done. Yeah I remember having never seen and there might be some of these new hot toy style things. I’m sure there’s someone somewhere who’s done some. I don’t really know time by action figures or anything particularly like that. If they did they did the worst job of marketing it because we should have like the people that are trying to talk to you. You know when we’re doing these things I just get loads of episodes of this and I start thinking about all the toy stuff. Then why didn’t back the future have any merch where something like Hey man was just super merch heavy but almost a lot of those things were actually driven by toy companies as just a vehicle to sell merch. That’s almost all it is the whole reason they actually did it. Yeah. So Lucas made lot of his money didn’t he by taking the rights to the merchandising whether the film studio just like we don’t give a shit about that. You can have all of that is like thank you very much.
That’s not the. Yes so he did that and that was like. It’s like the Air Jordan of the toy game isn’t it really it’s like you can’t repeat it again. He’s created like a you can’t G placate and obviously then Marvel also goes into toys and you know now they’re both owned by Disney. So it’s so much heavy that I can’t go into. I mean it’s not as bad as in the UK but he’s still going to see McCartney’s new release and toilet paper. It’s brought to you by Star Wars. It doesn’t even have any draw. You know you’re not even wiping your arse with Vader’s face it’s literally just white toilet paper and The Wrap has got a Star Wars on it or something and you kind of you know they oversaturated and yeah they kind of kill it a little bit but by then it isn’t easy designing all this stuff. You know when we took him all of stars we’re just talking about some of the intellectual property of Disney not even the whole thing.
Yeah. I mean they’re definitely merch Kings as well I guess and Disney. Yeah they definitely there’s always been toys and stuff like that has it.
Yeah I mean he’s a guy in my own recent thing so much shows up here in my office. I’ve got a really old school Mickey Mouse. Right. Yeah.
I mean that makes the you know I don’t know how old it is but it’s definitely older than us you know looking at that one of the oldest kind of toys that we’ve got as well maybe slightly unrelated but all that way back with Snoopy Snoopy we had you know we’ve still got them. Yeah those Snoopy toys and that was definitely something where you could always get kind of Snoopy Mickey Mouse.
Yeah. So I lived in Hong Kong when we were small for about six or seven years. Yeah let’s go into the wasn’t. And I definitely know there’s some cool toys that came our way out of Hong Kong where obviously a lot of the the toy a Star Wars all those things I think I Snoopy might have come from Hong Kong that they probably did because it would have been around the era when I was about that age and we definitely got some good Star Wars stuff that was only available there and recently we started just clearing house and trying to not be crazy collects the stuff and we did eBay off a lot of Star Wars figures and you realize a lot of time it’s just a tick really detail close up shots of the backs and the fronts and people are just going crazy for it because it’s like you know do you have the little thing that says it is made in Hong Kong or Macao or it’s got you know all these reference numbers and it could be a Han Solo from the first episode for from 1977.
But what are the little numbers and letters on the back of his leg looking for those rare yeah kind of things that there’s just not a lot of them whether it be books or whatever it may be. I know once we started looking at that you know I said aren’t my girlfriends generation it was more with the Harry Potter or something and then just certain books where kind of like what you’re saying with the Star Wars where it had a different name on those very first editions that were made or you know those different names on the American and the English ones and or miss prints all of that kind of stuff.
I think summer I’ve got some of the really. So I used to collect comics as well and I went through in recent years repacked them and reported them and again selling off a lot of them some like what would I need these for. You know it’s not that interesting to me anymore apart from my visually for maybe all inspiration and stuff but I think I’ve got some of the early star wars Marvel comics so maybe even the cover of the episode I might stick one of those up seeing that look that’s obviously a total crossover. The two into the two of them but they’re not kind of goes into an area where point Marvel sort of a lot of the characters like the the rights to use them to actually avoid going bankrupt which seems crazy when you leave out Marvel Now it’s like they’re definitely not bankrupt.
Yeah well I wouldn’t imagine so.
No they’re far from it but what I liked about that is it kind of sort of felt like forced Marvel to be sort of more resourceful with using some of their sort of lesser known characters where some of those successful films. When I was a comic character like I’ve got like a stack of God and come Galaxy collector.
He’s a comic character. When I was a comic character a comic character a comic collector I got like a stack of Guardians of the galaxy comics.
I don’t think I ever read them. I was just like oh they were cheap and I’m just gonna make my collection bigger. There’s some fans out there. It wasn’t my X-Men.
You know really do X-Men reboot that kind of runs into that almost the oversaturation in some ways. But then some of the FSA me who’s not quite as deep into it as you because I didn’t really collect the comic so I just read comics that you had. It wasn’t something that was say like a passion I say for me. But then you know people like to say when they talk about saturation of the whole X-Men thing whereas say just personally for me one of my favorite ones was the was the X-Men is origin of Wolverine. I think it was plus it was at the origins or one of the Wolverine movies the one where it’s in Japan or whatever.
I don’t know I just personally loved that movie. Yeah. But then like like say saw some of the other ones I thought they were just total garbage. Yeah most unwatchable. The ones which is the ones I just find it. But this again this I would say it just comes down to personal preference and kind of what you like at the movies like for me personally the ones which are just kind of I find them pure action. It’s like it’s not like I can’t watch him. Yeah well there’s too much action there when it’s just you just it starts the action star. It’s just like flying around jumping and flying. Yes. And then it finishes it is not for me but some people you know they just love the action.
So maybe they love that show then say like when we talk about X-Men they’re not inside the Marvel Cinematic Universe because in film wise I mean they’ve just been gonna be reintroduced because fuck Disney’s bought out Fox and some other people. So some of that IP is going back into it but that’s why you never see X-Men crossing over with anything else. But now it’s coming back in. So here going forward there is going to be X-Men Fantastic Four all of these bigger so more well-known characters or groups of characters are coming back into that into that universe. But I think what it was good with having restrictions say they’re still not allowance that you know they can use the Hulk in some of the films but they can’t put Hulk film out in the MCU so he can appear in Avengers but you know these restrictions are found generally without things when you’ve got some kind of restrictions so you got work within you get more creative. And then that’s how they’ve made some of these what would be maybe slightly shittier unknown characters like Guardians of the galaxy. Black Panther you know some of these things that they’re not like the the spy demands and I mean I was gonna say dead as well as to his TV series is good actually. Yeah that was really good. URIBE told me to watch and they made some garbage more Ben Affleck movies before this MCU officially so it became a thing that aren’t considered parts of it but yeah something like that.
And black panther you know things like that with super cursive. Goodman Yeah really really popular. Really enjoyed it as well personally.
Yeah. And but I mean a lot of people don’t realize this. I mean obviously the other things they can’t use fully at the moment. Spider-Man and then all the Spider-Man offshoots. So you got venom carnage sinister six all these characters that are tied into that are sort of getting reintegrated now into it they can semi use them but say venom they’re not gonna be able to use for quite a while. And why can’t they because reason they basically sold off all the rights to these characters to avoid bankruptcy. That’s why is okay. X-Men everything Spider-Man related fantastic four that’s why all these things aren’t in the MCU up to this point or they’re sort of getting reintroduced because they had to just sell the rights them off to to stay alive basically. But then obviously these things are then suddenly become so high value because of the success of all the other films companies aren’t that ready to just sell them back to them or you know how much does it cost to get the Hulk back into the MCU.
If you’re smart and you’ve got the rights to that. Yeah and everyone wants cash. Yeah.
Serious cash. And then Hulk has a lot of spinoff characters like she hulk and stuff which are actually quite popular in the comics but there’s also a lot of things that people don’t realize that Marvel like men in black Kingsman right.
Kickoffs all of those things are all so Marvel affiliated as well that people don’t receive and for me I didn’t know all of those were I knew kickoffs was didn’t know men in black was didn’t know Kingsman was either.
Yeah. So if you take something like kickoffs it’s like well they’re not that worried about getting back the IP for that cause you know there’s been a couple of films that being good but it kind of has probably a limited it’s been done. Yes like it was kind of shocking and different. And now you like how many more of those could do good they do. And also it’s like well they can’t then necessarily reintroduce that into the MCU because it wouldn’t fit with Spider-Man and all those other things the way he’s doing it and it’s sort of the set up of you know why aren’t there any real superheroes is sort of the theme kickoff isn’t it. You’re going to do it. It’s like if you reintroduce a universe where there are lots of superheroes it doesn’t the whole premise is kind of just ridiculous isn’t it.
It was good though. They were cool movies though those and so yeah brilliant.
And again Kingsman I don’t I don’t think you can really reintroduce that back into AMC yet it wouldn’t make any sense. Yeah. What are you going to do with it. Yeah would be the point in having those guys when Thor can just come and just blast them all away with this hammer of cultural appropriation gone on in there with Thor.
Yeah right. We should be angry about that. Ariel pissed off about. They should have taken a real Scandinavian guy and all that bullshit. Whatever yeah. Obviously we don’t think that you let that clear.
So I think a bit of the problem say with well it’s basically who’s sort of leading them into the future these two franchises is gonna have a lot of a bearing on where they go and how well they do. Yeah exactly. So Star Wars is currently being sort of overseen by someone called Kathleen Kennedy who is basically George Lucas his choice for his successor when he when he sold the company he was like I’ll sell it. Part of the things is you got to have her and that was part of the deal. Yeah. I think she was a producer on sort of Indiana Jones things and stuff like that so even though she’s not like maybe a household name she’s definitely it’s not like he just plucked her out of like his like his wife’s best friend out or something like that. It’s like she definitely has credentials someone that he clearly obviously has confidence in.
And if he’s gone to the point of specifying that she’s got to be the one to do it yeah he’s not going to do that for no reason. Yeah exactly. So it’s just me and all that shit you know as well like Connick obviously classic. Yeah. And again actually talking about all of that stuff like the kind of the last Indiana Jones yep that people didn’t like it. Yeah.
What was it with a skull something a skull shape and some aliens in there and stuff wasn’t there.
Yeah I think so. I remember watching it. But I say that I remember watching I don’t remember anything that happened and it was a childbirth in it. Yeah yeah I think so.
And I kind of like I hate him and like him at the same time he’s so it seems so ridiculous. I quite like him. He was like a standards of means and shit with his hands moving in her ear. He was in the Transformer movies and all that stuff wasn’t even without him. I think some of them again those are just I guess that’s a big budget and made lot of money but it just takes to be unwatchable. I just say I can deal with it. I guess that point is worth saying that you know people women start talking about maybe Star Wars being on the decline and Marvel coming up. Both franchises and killing it in terms of how much money they’re making so there’s no. It’s not like Star Wars isn’t making any money anymore or slightly smaller.
You say you go into a supermarket even down here or something like that and it’s like your son can go away with a light saber and all types of stuff which we could never even. Yeah yeah. Hands on when we were crazy fans of it right in the middle of it.
Yeah. So. And then box office stuff you know I still go and say good you just. I guess the issue is say Kathleen Kennedy is you can go on YouTube and you’re just you’ll see a hundred things saying Kathleen Kennedy shit. But you know and you won’t see many people backing her up or saying she’s doing a really good job. You know I mean it’s like I guess that’s almost the nature of the Internet now isn’t it. Say the last Jedi I wish you and me both really light is gone gone a lot. Hey yeah but I think it’s the only there’s just people who hate it. The only ones sort of talking out leaving back commentaries and rotten tomatoes. They’re just kind of just doing it. It’s still doing really well at the box office. I know loads people like it or who are kind of indifferent who are not super into it. I think she’s almost a bit of an issue or what she’s been trying to do that is interesting she’s been trying to promote diversity in the Star Wars universe. So yeah. You know a bad thing and we’ve talked about these things in other areas so you know we’ve got maybe other episodes coming up to talk about sort of gender equality and race issues as well. So obviously like great have more strong female people of different ethnic backgrounds and Star Wars you know when I think about it it’s like well if you look at the original trilogy I feel like Princess Leia was like petite like a weak character. You know it wasn’t like oh she’s really a weak woman yes she needs rescuing off the Death Star.
But she’s kind of being taken a rebellious path and stuff just to get there and it’s not just in there being saved and being the kind of classic sort of like yeah like you said in an old school movie like me it needs to be helped.
I mean she’s there blasted the AP poll shows she’s like oh you guys had did a really shitty rescue are like yeah right from the get go.
She’s given it to Han Solo.
And I thought you know even then going into some of the the prequels and stuff I didn’t think to me that there was a real weakness of female characters particularly right or but or black characters as well.
I mean obviously land land our characters is one of the main characters here is obviously a black dude you got the Samuel L. Jackson character in the prequels who is obviously a super important character in the new ones.
Yeah. But what the whole race thing seems like your friend makes the same point like well this is going into like almost not maybe the real definition of race but we’re talking about literally different races of people from different planets. Yeah I mean it’s not even different skin color variations in the human race. It’s like you know they took these green people they’re like you know people are really small people who what keys. You know there’s kind of it’s quiet. It’s almost beyond that for me and some.
Yes does. It can’t get any more diverse than that. Yeah exactly. When it really comes down to it it’s just like you said I guess if all of the let’s say human characters in it. There was no women and just everyone’s white and everyone was why. And there was no nothing then that would obviously be an issue. Yeah but it wasn’t like that.
No. And then so I think she’s really taken it upon herself to sort of push that and I think that’s you know kind of set a lot of people. Well if you look at it basically the average Star Wars fan regardless of it being so big whatever it is is still sort of geeky white middle aged American man. You know that’s still your average Star Wars fan. You know it’s not particularly big in China or places like that. It’s not as much of a cultural phenomenon. So it’s still basically looking at white middle aged comic collector geeks is a thing. So she’ll come out and she’ll have t shirts where she’s with just a group of women she’s hired to work on air and they’re wearing t shirts that say like the force is female or male or something that can semi understand why that doesn’t sit well with a fan base because it doesn’t super sit well with me. And if it’s the force it’s kind of like a yin yang thing that’s going to kind of be male or female everything yeah. It’s like nature it sort of encompasses all those things.
No doubt that I’m all for say gender equality. And you know like race equality and all those kinds of things. But that doesn’t mean that all of a sudden what I’m saying is that like nowadays and I think this is something which again I think in Europe we’ve got it to a certain extent but we definitely don’t have it like they do in the states from just general things that I read about where you know you couldn’t turn around and say the force is like like a masculine thing before you know they’d be fucking up or Yeah. So then why does it make it OK to say it’s female. Yeah you know I just. Surely it’s exactly the same thing. Well it’s just a saying one or the other. Yeah. You know the whole point is that it’s neat it’s neither is but yeah exactly. I mean that’s the if you’re going to look at the logical thing if you want it to all be equal Yeah that’s what you should be saying yes.
You say Okay so she can say that but then she’s got live with the consequences. That’s probably not going to be good for business with your core. You sort of respect your core fan base and you obviously want people to like it in general is commercial at the end of the day isn’t it. So it is about making money but you’re making money by doing it well you know like it’s got to be right. And it’s like well if you’re doing that you’re just pissing people off for no reason. You could just be like Okay so this is so of her agenda I’m just going to she’s just going to hire more women more people of different ethnic origins to be in the film behind the film working on the film. And you could just do that without having to say this is what I’m doing. You can still just you can still do it. I’m not saying she’s an idiot. If you’re not an idiot you don’t say to people this is what I’m going to do. And then you do it. You’d kind of do it because then you can be smarter about it and you can kind of just make it happen and then people would just accept it.
And at the end of the day the point is is that you’re doing it doesn’t matter whether you’re talking about doing it or not. It doesn’t look like what it really comes down to again is if you actually want these kind of things is that you’re just doing it.
Yeah just do it. You just make it happen. Yeah. On the flip side of that someone there’s pretty not as much to say to that on the Marvel side as a guy called Kevin FYI who’s the president of Marvel Studios since I think it was 2007 just before the Iron Man. So the MCU thing is sort of his baby. If you want and he’s basically just made right moves from me again go here. You know like it’s like he just sees a knife at Rock and obviously now that’s all owned by Disney. There’s some people talking which I don’t really know if it will happen is possibly moving him over to Star Wars to kind of the stabilizer of that earlier yeah maybe make that more of a try and see what you did for the MCU for four Star Wars you know and balance the ship really.
It’s really interesting because when you look at all of these kind of things and maybe this kind of leads into the thing about we wanted to sort of chat about like the endings you know which obviously ties in a lot more with the Star Wars thing because of everything that’s happening with this next episode coming out. But we really are looking at something where the Star Wars thing started off strong and I mean obviously it still is strong.
Yeah but if anything there’s more kind of worry about it going downhill yet rather than going uphill. It almost essentially how could it go much more upheld than how it started.
Yeah started with a bang whereas like you said with the Marvel stuff It started with like we were saying about those old movies and things like that especially if you are if you look in the movies more so than than the comics which obviously is only part of the thing but that just went up and up and the Marvel thing I don’t think anyone would deny that it’s just going from strength to strength whereas the Star Wars thing start. It’s so strong that it’s kind of harder to you know it’s a much harder path to be on when you’ve had some it’s almost like the thing like when you’re an artist or something and you do you come straight onto the scene in this year a huge deal and what you’re doing at that time is that people are like they love it and you kind of get stuck in that thing of like either you carry on doing what you are doing because it works. But in general that just has no longevity or you’re obliged to to move on.
But it’s actually harder to move on and keep kind of essentially growing and getting better. When you start with the huge boom whereas if you can’t you’re not you know as hungry.
Oh yes. To start with your hungry you want to put food on the table pay your bills so you like and see green and then you get sex and excess and then you’re like I want to carry on this creative journey. How do I do it.
Yeah for sure. And there’s just that much more pressure you carry on that much more weight on your shoulders. Whereas if you kind of you know start off as an artist and you get a little bit of you know success and stuff like that but you each time you’ve got more of a chance of one upping yourself and creating something better and creating this thing that just keeps on moving in the right direction whereas like you said if you go the other way it’s just I think it’s just a harder position to be in even though it’s a much better position to be in.
Just turn up and make a move and it’s just like bam wham like everyone loves it compared something else where I guess at the end of the day the people really calling the shots like I think it’s Bob Iger runs Disney at the end of day he’s like it’s going gonna be money. Yeah you know like say even if he thought right Star Wars is going to shit but how much money can we bleed out of it before it dies. I mean that would still be the you know still with Marvel you’d be like right let’s just try and keep this rolling makes much money as possible when it starts to go downhill. We just bleed it dry.
That’s going to you kind of hear you know like say like in the hip hop world you often hear about selling out. You know you always hear about this thing is selling out and to a certain extent within the art world as well. Yes. You know and and I guess it’s this thing where it’s like it’s your films as well. Yeah sure. I will say you know say if you take something like Star Wars and it’s Lucas’s creation it’s his kind of quote unquote baby. And it’s his passion and he’s put all this time into it. People would often regard it as a sell out if you obviously sell it. Yeah you know which is what he’s done.
And then you’ve got no control over the thing anymore or well he obviously that’s part of the reason why he put her in charge of it.
It’s a hard one within. Like we say within music within art within all these kinds of things to be to be the branded that sell out.
Yeah or sometimes you know you could a lot of people are selling you a sell out because they haven’t made it. Yeah.
And it’s essentially because you’re doing well. Yeah. You know a lot of the time like you say you branded a sellout just because you’ve you’ve sold a lot of whatever it is you’re making or you’ve made a lot of money or whatever it may be. People it’s like we mentioned this before we’d like Jaycee or something like that where you said that your favorite Jay-Z stuff is it’s almost the more sold out sold out kind of style of the thing whereas with me just because it’s one of the first records I bought was his first 12 inch was the president or his first proper twelve which I don’t have you actually released anything before that. That’s my favorite bit but that’s just again it’s just a matter of taste. Yeah really. It’s like you like listening to that track. I like listening to a different track there’s different reasons and whether it be music or films or whatever. I was saying with depends what generation you’re from and what connotations that holds what feelings that gives you all these things.
So deep inside it was a lot about that really isn’t when it comes down. Yeah I think so. You got our generation who grew up in the original trilogy then you got people who grew up on the prequels you really like that when the prequels came out people were shitting on those they know the worst things ever. And now a lot those people generally have accepted the prequels into the thing and most people I think would actually like them. But even then I think when Empire Strikes Back came out.
People like this is shit like Oh it’s a lot of the time is often kind of generally regarded as maybe the best movie made all of them balance one. Yeah for sure like you said I mean we had the like one of our best friends has a son who grew up who’s now Like what.
Like a mid mid teenager 16 something like that 15 16 and he grew up right in amongst the prequel stuff. So it was just the more reasons kind of like watching a bit more the lone wolves as well.
Yeah. And more than the prequel Yeah yeah for sure. So it’s just like like we say that kind of represents his generation whereas for me personally obviously I have a special connection with the original movies. But I mean I like the prequels. I like the originals and I like the ones that have come out recently. But to be honest say like if I was just going to choose favorite character favorite person for me personally was probably quite gone yet. I don’t know.
I just like really liked the character that sort of ties into something where we’re not like crazy. I guess they call them Star Wars sweaty. Like when you like really geeky and saying sweaty Lightyear. Yeah. It’s like we know we got into reading or listening to the audio books of some of the novels from the sort of bigger star wars universe that aren’t considered canon so they’re not considered part of the Star Wars actual story that’s connected with films.
Certain things certain films certain TV series certain things they’ll be like oh this is canon. This is like Star Wars fact where George Lucas said that all these other people create new lives other things. So part of the universe but maybe it’s told from a different person’s perspective for it’s not necessarily true but it’s kind of like legends and you know all this stuff going out Did people just have interest.
Did people I mean how would the rights work on those kinds of things. Did Lucas do you think he had to give. Like I think there’s going to be. He had to share what they could or they couldn’t. That’s why I kind of mentioned Stu because I remember when I was like a teenager and she’s just like really good old friend who’s who’s really into especially Star Wars.
But Marvel and all that kind of stuff.
And I remember back when we were teenagers even he was reading some of those books and I think even at the time I was like Yeah. And then I read books of Riddick. I think he might let me one I was like This is just totally ridiculous. But like you say actually now 20 years down the line and like you said which which but I think the flip side is some of them have really shit.
I tried I listen to. There’s one about Darth plague us right. It was super good because yeah he’s obviously Palpatine palpitations scythe master.
That’s the only one actually. Yeah. To be honest I really really yeah. I mean I would like to see a movie that I’d love to have.
I mean they should probably be referencing some of these things and just bring out Darth plagues movie you the strength for Marvel is they’ve got so much source material that fans already love so it’d be really hard to fuck it up because you’re doing certain stories come out. But then I know that then they can build up for these other things like we had sort of Infinity War and is releasing secret wars that tie in different characters and then they’ve got you know they’re gonna bring in these what if ones where it’s just pure like a what if Professor X was head of the Fantastic Four instead of X-Men or. So they’re gonna do like animated ones and forget all these old characters. I think back to to voice their characters in those old actors. You know they’ve got a million directions I can go but they kind of embracing that possibility aren’t they.
Star Wars they kind of shunning a lot of these things on the periphery like just to plague us and then do Darth Bane because Darth Bane was three awesome books and I know you can make that into a brilliant film but then again with some of these books like I tried to get into those like an OBE one book Yeah what happens I’m arms and a sort of looking after Luke when he’s a baby or he’s not looking yeah he’s in there and if if need be.
I when you see an episode for his living reviews and you literally going in and it’s like you know the Star Wars Holiday Special where they’re going to like to his house that families are working there for like 15 minutes and it’s like there’s some crazy baby Ricky is a bit like that in this Obi Wan but with Sam people like baby some people like oh zombie films like I’ve just got this totally shit in a lion’s den in this medium because a lot of the time just because of our time you’re just not been able to and not having the time to actually read books like I think you mentioned this a little while ago on one of the other podcasts and we just listened to a lot of audio books because you always drive into the tattoo studio or travelling alone and stuff so actually it’s just that much easier.
Yeah. And then you get the Darth plague us or you get this maybe one book says Yeah big difference between the two. But I’m sure the fan you know there must be a backup where more people must like the plague as one than the argue I’m always thinking that obviously we just downloaded an audible the you know there is a quake on an Obi One yeah. Let’s download and I haven’t had time to get into it. I’m hoping that’s gonna be good.
Like you saying like quite guns awesome character yeah from the pretty and us and I’ve heard chat about like him kind of being tied into this last movie.
Well I think that’s that’s so much that’s coming with this is that they’ve said well what’s come a potential downside for Star Wars say with Episode 9 J.J. Abrams that basic promise to create a satisfying conclusion to all three of the trilogies and the Skywalker story and our good luck they say you know he’s never gonna do it. It’s like it’s literally not possible.
Yeah it’s like it can be satisfying for certain people. As far as it’s like you said to take other things like where I don’t know like something that comes to mind like the Soprano’s or something you know which again the reason that comes to mind is that it was a bit of a genre change.
Yeah you know I mean it kind of like took the something that was a series almost the quality of a movie it was the first thing certainly I’d seen like that where it was just unbelievable. It’s like. And the problem is is that compared to a movie.
How do you finish it and you can’t please everyone. We just can’t finish it. Well yeah. It’s like I mean I got the box set things a 30 DVD box set with you know how many hours of Soprano’s is on it. It’s like you’re never going to finish it will make me happy. But I actually quite liked the ending. It’s kind of almost like Yeah I liked it as well. It’s almost like yeah. Spoiler alert for anyone who hasn’t seen a TV series in like 30 years ago. It’s like he’s just in a diner and then the door opens and you don’t know what’s going to happen. Kind of got a perfect that just means you just seen a even an extended part of his life.
Then it’s just going to keep on going like you said and it does it really have to have this happen to this person this happened to him. Well.
They literally going to kill everyone and then he is going to go off to Disneyland on holiday and live happily ever after. That may be even more apt now cause he’s like a gangster guy like that his mentality is not gonna change in. Well the thing I like.
I think you know on top of it the aspects I always say traditionally liked more about reading books and literature that I liked compared to say just movies and especially Hollywood movies and Blockbuster things with a happy ending is that number number one you start watching a movie and five minutes into it you know exactly how it’s going to end. It doesn’t mean I can’t enjoy the movie. But to me it just doesn’t do the same thing as reading like a good novel or something. And what I mean is a lot of light novels and like books I’ve enjoyed reading have endings like that where it’s like it makes you think yeah you know I mean it doesn’t just it feeds you.
Yes your fucking brain. Exactly.
It lets you take your imagination and almost create an ending. Yeah. Do you want. And like I said it makes you think it makes you. And again this kind of ties into the. To the cinema stuff. A lot of movies that we’d like to younger in this kind of ties into the Star Wars stuff like the curse our movies and I think European cinema as well probably a lot of the time and if you never say never watched like curse our most people have heard of the seven samurai which is the which is the most kind of famous movie that he made that was a huge influence. And I mean here Lucas has said this was a huge influence. It was on Star Wars but a lot of those kind of movies that’s the thing I liked about them and not even necessarily the Seven Samurai. But even in that it’s like a lot of the you know create this whole thing of like it doesn’t just have to be happy happy ending.
Not the best characters die. It doesn’t really have it. Even that movie doesn’t really have like a maybe what you could say just a satisfying ending it’s like yeah they they they kind of saved the village or whatever I don’t wanna spoil it but I guess that goes back into that cultural appropriation thing where you know say some across our stuff was based on Shakespeare like.
Yes. Some of them have an influence. And then he makes those films and then a lot of you know the Clint Eastwood westerns all those you know. Yeah.
I mean amazing that I don’t like misfits and members and they’re just like Otto they’ve ripped off almost all of the curse our films into westerns.
Has that sort of ronin samurai wandering samurai my dreams go on this thing.
Exactly. Style and there is the that Bruce Willis film kind of voice called is based on one as well and keeps on evolving and having a thing where you is kind of building and other people’s work and I don’t see that.
And you’re taking what you what you kind of love essentially about a thing I guess maybe that they said if somebody like with the magnificent seven is that different. It’s very different to say what Lucas did with Star Wars. Yeah. You know one is almost like a remake of the movie not I haven have an issue with that. Yeah. Because a lot of the time on top of it that’s the thing it’s kind of like sampling in hip hop or something where a lot of the people were heavily against it. So they feel like you know what it is. Say Bob James for example as far as I know was really against his music being sampled. But I would never have listened to Bob James if I didn’t listen to all the hip hop. And for those people out there I mean again like we said in the last one we’re definitely going to go into like a hip hop and a music kind of episode and so he’ll definitely be someone that comes into it because of him along with James Brown and a handful of other people are the people that were the most heavily sampled to make hip hop. You know I mean they basically almost every fucking song they made was sample. Yeah. You know it’s it’s crazy.
And it kind of goes into that cultural appropriation discussion as well whereas it’s like you’ve got James Brown Okay one of the most one you know like. I mean music certainly is something where black people have been heavily represented in it you know like with jazz and blues and the whole creation of rock n roll and then you know people having issues with Elvis and like we say I’m not gonna talk about it right now. Well we’ll get into it.
I do like a copying or original art kind of unified episode so that a lot of the sampling in hip hop was definitely come in.
But you know Bob James is just it’s like white dude who’s been you know that heavily influenced by black artists before him. Yeah but then all these then black artists in hip hop then start sampling this white guy and creating all all of this music and it’s like I don’t know we were listening to like a deejay premiere thing the other day and he comes out with. Yes. Yeah. He’s like and he’s like rockin it to yes and deejay premiers won them. Yeah. If not the most respected hip hop producer of All Time. Yeah. And he’s playing.
Yes we went and saw yes in concert like Wembley Arena when we’re not that was into it when we were kids or something. It’s like it’s the last thing I thought I’d hear on a deejay permit thing. But that’s the beauty of it is because that is not the it’s got any issues with white or black or Yeah. But anyway that kind of almost goes back to the previous episode and gets into new ones if you gonna link or finish off the chorus our style we’ll sing and it basically will end.
So based on Corus I was film Hidden Fortress. Yes. So that basically if you want to look at something where Lucas has the most inspired by it that’s it. It kind of has to kind of comic foolish characters that are the droids and yeah especially.
That’s how I think the movie opens. And the hidden fortress is those two comic characters just like how. Yeah.
And you hope and there’s a lot of little details that are quite similar in the general story structure of a new hope to a hidden fortress. So that’s definitely something that if you’re interested in Star Wars and you haven’t seen that you should definitely definitely check those movies out go back and have a look at that. Yeah another thing would be game of thrones that really people in I didn’t really get into or go into at some point then just sort of lost interest in something else. But people said the ending of that wasn’t very satisfactory. I think it was also not written by the guy who started it right the first seven. Yeah seriously. I remember what the name of it. Yeah. And then the ending I don’t know whether they didn’t have time to write anything like going to put it out anyway or whatever. It wasn’t written by him. They had to make some kind of conclusion. That seems to gone down generally worse than better. You know people like that seems kind of shit. So I think it was the general take out not so the numbers seem to be. I guess people just talking about Star Wars online or giving a shit about Star Wars seems to apparently be down. That metric goes and whatever that really means. But I mean I’m pretty sure still the biggest film release of this year whether it does the crazy numbers the Avengers end game data or things like that. I’m more excited about Star Wars Episode 9. I think it’s still more of an event.
Yeah I think if I was gonna go and just watch one movie this year that would be the movie that I’m going to I can’t miss that.
Yeah. Because the end game is going to roll into other things. But also they should’ve done a Star Wars. They should have been. This is just episode nine. Not that it’s gonna be the best fucking thing you’ve ever seen. It’s gonna top every plot threads. Yeah you really put the hurt harsher on your slide just put the pressure on then you can maybe do ten eleven twelve or minus one minus two minus three or just go to TV series or just build out the universe with a plague us thing or like the Laura and I can they just don’t put the pressure on what’s the point really. Yeah. So I think if we’re going to sort of wrap it up on this one. Marvel has got a pretty a much broader appeal because it’s been a thing that’s been going that much longer. You know you could’ve been a child when they first came out or in the 70s the 80s the 90s latched onto it. Oh yeah. Picked up within I think in generation or because it’s like being so strong or the strongest by five last ten years that new generation is still really plugged into it you know. So they’re more up on how things get distributed and just enjoying it or where Star Wars. I think especially with episode nine has you know it’s really it’s gonna be make or break. It’s like they’re either going to totally smash it and they go way beyond Avengers or they’re just going to do something that is ten times more controversial than the last Jedi that people are going to possibly really hate.
That’s the thing is that when you’re creating something in this kind of way it all comes down to an art and creation and stuff like that if you’re going to do anything original or if you’re going to do anything that’s probably worth doing.
Yeah it’s going to definitely create this like hatred life and all of.
Maybe the things people are so much more invested in Star Wars hatred so much stronger than you know with Marvel and now there’s a lot of people are crazy Marvel people but I still think it’s Star Wars potentially is on a different level so there’s people just so much more invested in it.
Yeah I wonder I mean again people put down in comments and stuff like what you’re so take is on it and we’d love to hear you know what you think about it yeah.
So I think possibly it might be that obviously the people at the top of it are running it as two people was really instrumental for the future of it and whether that changes round or Kathleen Kennedy stays on or say something like they for lonely takes over her place you did the Clone Wars. We’re probably gonna see do a better job not saying we did a good job. Who’s to say Viki stays on at Marvel he might burn out on it have enough or go to Star Wars and then who takes over at Marvel and do they do such a good job that could all of a sudden start going downhill is he gonna be able to mastermind something that he’s done so well for ten years can you do that for 40 years. I mean it might just be way too much or you know you know you never know what happens to people. So I think one might go one might go down but I think Avengers probably at the moment looks way more stable and Star Wars is much more volatile. But then like you’re saying that’s where you can win big or you can lose big.
So you rolling the dice a bit more maybe once you get up to that top there’s only one way you can kind of go a certain point and you kind of down. But the thing is that everything kind of has those leaps and bounds you Yeah goes up and down. Good and bad sides to it not being up please everyone.
I think that’s really what the whole thing comes down to me minus like I say in the Obi Wan novels with Sam people cooking breakfast and shit like most of the other Star Wars stuff that’s gone out there with all the main films as ones I like more ones a lot less.
But like all of it you know like I can kind of. And I certainly got no problem with the stuff I don’t like. And like I said I’ve kind of sometimes come around to aspects or things that I didn’t really like and now maybe I quite like them even maybe some aspects I liked. I don’t like them so much. Yep everything evolves.
I think I probably also really sort of hitting a pretty similar audience really aren’t they like me. I’m sure nice is still on that. Well a they’re all owned by Disney so they’re just killing it in the cinema.
Not only that whole the whole genre and all that kind of thing is something that my girlfriend for example just doesn’t isn’t into it yet. And I think this is probably another Star Wars or Avengers or by probably a bit more into the Marvel stuff but even the Marvel stuff yeah. Lt doesn’t really like any of that kind of thing. It just doesn’t like that whole kind of style. You know like I said I’m sure I’m not the only dude out there. I’m sure a lot of dudes earlier say the same thing but I’ve dragged her along to the say the recent the last yet I and the one before it. She really enjoyed them. Whereas if I try and put on the old movies here she’s just not she’s just not interested I’ll try. You know she just can’t watch him. So certainly for someone like her who’s outside of the whole genre. These new movies are actually kind of better of bringing her in and dragging her into it.
I mean I really like when I went towards the last Jedi. So I think I started I think I had a tattoo client here for four days from like Paris. And I remember. And I was also quite sick while she was here but as like I said to LA I’m gonna be sick. So you know you to come or she’d booked time off work booked a flight just like I’m just gonna do it. So messed up. And then just before the film I had two or three hours I drove to cinema I just slept in my van outside the cinema woke up went in had potentially multiple panic it was on the edge of panic attack throughout the whole film. And but for the first five 5 10 minutes I was like fuck they totally fuck Star Wars with the Porges and some of the shit they had and it was like This is awful. I remember my mind I thought you know what Star Wars being gets me over the years so it’s dead now. I’ll just enjoy what was good about it. It was a good run. And then by the time I left I was like. That was amazing. I loved the whole Luke Skywalker how he went out at the end. Most people I say most people that people with the loudest voices seem to hate.
That was like I was awesome like it seemed super the dry humor that kind of they super kind of Jedi Zen Buddhist Taoist. I don’t know.
There’s something really short complete about how you went out. I really enjoyed very going to be coming back anyways a force is very I’m not upset very not your typical Hollywood yeah kind of star thing.
Yeah. Again like you said it’s kind of stuff that we really like.
They didn’t have someone overlooking the trilogy which seems like the most obvious thing to date. Kathleen Kennedy isn’t going to Rian Johnson or J.J. Abrams This is the overall arc. Let’s build over a log J.J. Abrams makes film. Ryan Johnson makes a film that just destroys everything he did and then Abrams is gonna come have to come back and try and reconcile all of that into what he says is a satisfactory ending to the Star Wars saga and all nine of the films. So yeah he’s going to be either very loved or very hated by the end of this year and then if there’s any amount of money that could compensate for that amount of hate. We’ll see what happens. Yeah. So I guess that wraps up star wars versus marvel. Obviously anyone has any comments on it. You know if you’re watching or listening to this on youtube comments down below you know get in touch with us any way you can. You know it’s social media now to find this about what you think about Star Wars versus marvel.
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