The Pistache Podcast – Episode 1

The Pistache Podcast – Episode 1 – This episode is an extension of episode Zero, finding out more about Pistache and the hosts Nick and Jamie Bennett. This episode they discuss Mastery and Martial Arts, Cultural Appropriation, UK Hip Hop & the Creative Process.

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Episode 1 Transcript

This transcript of the Pistache Podcast has been generated using artificial intelligence, so it’s not perfect at this point. This is also episode 1, so we’re talking over each other quite a bit. So going forward the transcripts should get a lot better.

This is The Pistache Podcast we’re talking about art, creativity and culture brought to you by Nick and Jamie Bennett.

Were going for. Episode 1, part 2 of Episode 0, the prequels. Yeah I know this is the original trilogy. Yeah.

What we’re going to do to start this one off is to try and because we were kind of obviously planning on doing this in Episode 0 but trying to give not just really so much even the background of us personally but and slightly more concise without hopefully deviating too quick or too early on Pistache itself. Yep. Because this is you know like we said it’s The Pistache Podcast We’re the two who are doing it. We’re basically so we’re brothers. I don’t even know if we said that.

I think I think I might even say in the intro.

Like what a guy. So yeah they bothered reading it a lot the time I don’t read any intro and just listen. Yeah. So who knows. Anyway yeah we’re brothers from basically north and north of London. We were actually born in Hertfordshire.

And like we said they are growing up around those areas and Watford was kind of the place where we were team. Well I was 18 at the time. Oh you’re still 18 for me.

So this is Nick speaking here. So for the for the Pistache thing I kind of wanted to say is so we both went to the art college. Like I said Middlesex University in North London cockfosters I think it was next to Southgate and so we both went there and like we said we’re both very different people but we do like pretty much a lot of stuff together especially for brothers we probably as close as anyone I know anyway. But having said all of that so we both.

Maybe that changed in us. I’m not hoping we have like some crazy fucking I like it doesn’t happen off them it goes off. I think that’s probably quite good listening isn’t it. I don’t know.

We obviously never recorded maybe five to 10 really shitty arguments maybe ever considering we’re four years old yet it’s not too bad and we do spend a lot of time together we obviously work together on Pistache and we work together on our tattoo stuff which is called Indigenous Tattoo and we said we live together closely studied together at the same freelancer area and yeah had a lot of the same friends because it basically two to two years essentially a separatist B. So like I was saying so we both went to art college and then Jamie went down which I’ll explain in a sec. He actually quit art college whereas I finished it and I did screen printing as my kind of I don’t know what the degree itself was called but it was essentially screen printing on fabric paper that kind of thing. And then so we like we were saying before and Jamie will probably explain this better is he was working at American Apparel when we started and I was working like I mentioned before we came to him Paul doing screen printing and I was also doing a tiny bit of basically sample printing for American Apparel showing the print ability of their cottons and sweat sweatshirts t shirts etc..

And so what I wanted to say was there was so like we said we were kind of both working at the same time when we started it which funded it. So we just kind of you know got together a little bit of cash bought some t shirts ice cream printed them at Katie and Paul’s studio at the time the first runs and we went and sold them a Camden Market. We had a friend Carla who was working there who kind of had to suffer a little bit in Camden markets probably still a great place but was always an iconic and incredible place and the great thing is is that they gave priority to people who made their own staff and produce their own stuff where you know have really you want to call it rather than just people who were buying stuff and selling it. So that really gave us an opportunity and I was out a hip hop gig I guess a hip hop event one night. Right right at the beginning probably before maybe even we were selling in Camden I think you know when we were literally printing samples for a lot of our site the original samples.

Give a quick shout out to mention them in the first Summers. Pete Matthews Yeah here goes American Apparel.

I mean we would definitely get him on but we’ll get into a thing he basically I mean I don’t know legally how it would be cool because these things can get kind of murky.

But he basically set up and ran American Apparel in Europe when previous to that was only a stateside operation that was only doing like wholesale to be printed on like fruit of the Loom or guilds. So when I was IFC work in there the great thing Mike Powers are just crazy amounts of samples around when we used to trade shows we go. There were ten times more samples than anyone else. You just give them out. Everyone would go away saying American Apparel so to start with we just had boxes of random t shirts sweats girls tops bottoms slight just everything.

And this stuff’s good quality of it that was that that was cool because I was in Paul there not a sponsor Yeah I’m not saying we wouldn’t take a. Sponsors. Yeah we’re just saying nice.

That’s where it starts. And I also bought a member buying our dad and asked we always been into vintage cars a.k.a. shitty cars as well. Like that you can call vintage someone and being good someone of being total like dog shit. We’ve got a lot of car shows and I’m against the M4 Motor Show. And we bought some caps and some T-shirts yeah they had like this woman to track a car and had a whole stack of I think they were anvil to Anvil like royal or no. Anvil royal blue t shirt.

So I think we and some random trucker cap here which we pay it up. We were always like you know that was the thing with the hip hop kind of culture and this is where it went from. Like even though it was clothing and screen printing we were customizing from the get go. Because even pre hip hop or the birth of hip hop when you look into it people were customizing jackets their shoes their caps and that had a huge influence on us. Yeah. So like you said that kind of gives a bit of background and so like I said I was. I was at an event one night and I was wearing so this zip up top that was one of these samples and obviously I’d been chitchatting about it with friends. And so Nick Nick S who is the Yungun esa he was out there and he kind of he saw me wearing it and was like Oh is that what you were telling me about like.

So this is this Pistache you’re going to call S S S will be known as S the artist formerly known as Yungun Yungun and wherever but for we’ll just be calling him s from here on site feature because there’s lots of nicks on top of it.

I’m Nick and he’s a nick and there’s a few other next that will probably come into the next come into the thing. So yeah. So basically I was wearing it. He said Oh that’s. But he specifically said to me I really like it and this light bulb kind of moment you know like that kind of comic book moment went off in my head and I just took it off and gave it to him on top of it. Nick was it more similar size to me. And you were definitely not anymore more but either way I gave it to him. He wore it and that’s what basically kind of got us onto this whole thing of well let’s close all the people we know in the hip hop UK hip hop industry. And that was a incredibly important moment. And like we said it wasn’t manufactured.

It was literally what I just said you know him saying he liked it me going off and knowing all those people you like oh we’re going to this now we’re going to meet people in heaven how many you lost Warhol immediately. We did an event is a really cool event. Anyway we’ll go into it. But you know you’re at that and people are Oh yeah I’m going to start my own clothing company I’m always just like Phoenix I just fucking died because a point I’m going to make it a market. How is it different now to what it was like when we started say 15 years ago and yeah just like Just don’t do it and then they’re like trying to manufacture like a market and how they’re going to do it. We were just like well we just know these people it’s not you know it’s better for them it looks more professional when you’re an upcoming hip hop artist or some of them have established but I’m saying it’s smaller seeing if they can go to other people say oh yeah I already have a clothing sponsor you know it’s something that shows up in the videos and we can cross promote things and do all of that. So just a a win win for everyone wasn’t it.

Yeah definitely. I mean and again the reason why we had these connections in the hip hop industry is like you said this is all pre Pistache and any of that. Essentially I was. So I was in a group we mentioned earlier the group itself was called the styles. And at the very beginning I’m guessing I was about 14 I think 14 15 ish. So this would have been 94 95 I think.

And basically one of my best friends at the time called James who’s artist name is devise.

He basically wanted to rap and he wanted someone to rap with. And we were kind of yeah know close for super close friends and hung out all the time. So he was like you’re going to rap with me. And I was like Alright. And I started rapping and basically so it was the two of us and there was another friend who again I have to mention and who come into it and who also we might do an episode with called Isaac and he essentially was ah deejay creative dude is super creative. He’s actually living in Finland at the moment but I won’t go into it but we’ll definitely get him on maybe a Skype one or something like that super creative he’s got an incredible background and he was incredibly creative with business and stuff. Anyway so it was the three of us and then through a connection through a friend of Isaacs we basically would go to Isaac’s house he had his techniques we bring all our records together and we’d just mess around the three of us and then so someone introduced us to s and so we heard about this rapper and so he came down one night and he might have come with a couple other people but basically from that night it turned into three rappers. So it was me devise. I was called Amy moon at the time which turned into Mr Moon which was kind of a graph. What. Whatever. Which is why I used to sign a lot of things. Mr Moon. But anyway so it was the three of us and Isaac and we had basically an extended crew like you do in hip hop and there was a friend of mine Stu.

There was another guy sat and there was another friend of ours who actually we met through s who’s the other Nick who like we said we’ll probably do an episode with him as well. He’s half Japanese he’s called Nick Stone his deejay name was K right. I think so he was another deejay who came into it and it became this kind of extended family and via that extended family. So Stu who. Like I said is one of my best friends and he’d even be an interesting one on the martial arts thing he has to see a printer. Yeah he went and lived in Japan and he’s. Anyway that’s another episode.

But he had an older cousin called Greg and can’t even remember Greg’s rap and name ricochet ricochet ricochet and he was in a group called Universal Soldier actually ricochet Kalashnikov at the start. He might have been and there was a thing we clashed about then. Yeah yeah but he basically said they were no doubt friends and stuff you know there was no kind of tension but yeah there was something like that. He was in a group Universal Soldiers. They were a bit older. They already had a thing and the reason I’m mentioning them is because even though I didn’t record on it the first vinyl appearance by any of us was actually an invite through Greg who had the connection with the studio etc etc. And then the next evolution was is the I think it was possibly slightly more through s we met up with this kid at the time kid at the time we were all kids but he was maybe a year or two younger but you know when you’re that age it makes a big difference called Harry and that’s Harry love and and then Harry became a D.J. and Harry was at the time. As far as I can remember was actually prepping. He was kind of like the young member of the scratch perverts. Yeah scratch perks iconic you know. I think anyone who listens. Yeah he’s into deejaying and stuff. It is kind of that era of the scratch per verse the incredible the invisible scratch pickles Mix Master Mike. You know Cuba. All of the godfathers the embassy champions.

Yeah they were they were group DMC chosen. They B was a deejay created deejay craze have a group where they called. No was it the allies are either way. Yeah. Pretty much possibly what they were basically what we kind of came back to.

They were the UK representative and they were like as good as the Americans. You know almost as good as they beat the lady they beat them. Yeah at one point Tony Vegas deejay missed the thing plus one. Either way you know there were and there were the four main but yeah. So Harry Love was actually helping Mr. thing I think at the time prepare his solo DMC kind of performance which I think he then went on to win the UK DMC is that year by himself anyway.

So that created the connection with Mr. thing and then like I said you know Yungun Mr thing ended up creating this iconic sort of duo where you kind of you know again whether it’s the best or the worst but an iconic rapper an iconic deejay. Creating two iconic album anyway that’s just basically kind of the background of what I wanted to say and why it was a hip hop thing and also to say that even though we were printing T-shirts and sweatshirts and stuff like I guess most people do screen printing I was a screen printer you know everything made sense around it Katie and Paul’s studio. But from the very get go like what Jamie said when we were and feel car show we picked up some trucker caps and because we were a hip hop kids we just got pens and graphed them up and it kind of went from there. So even though nowadays we do varied with clothing in actual fact you know we have a T-shirt or two very limited. We actually do lots of customizing shoes customizing caps customizing anything just to do a slight bit of fact checking.

So it’s not like you. So scratch perverts it says formed in 96 by Tony Vegas prime cuts and D.J. renegade All right. Obviously other members of Mr. thing deejay plus one Harry love and Killer Keller as well was also a member of a little shout out as well to the party who is in the group with Harry love at the time.

Yeah they went on to do some stuff to get us out and yet a creative and iconic album in their own right verb T and Harry love. Tom’s a good friend in fact funnily enough going off on a tangent not not surprisingly I was tattooing a French guy at the studio at the beginning of this week as well I think it was on Monday and we kind of had stuff in common hip hop and basketball and he says to me Oh yeah I know I know Sammy Uk Hip Hop sets me for hours and I was like four hours. I had it. What the fuck is four hours and then all of a sudden I was like four hours. And funnily enough you know like I don’t know whether that was actually created. But my friend Tom. He is the kind of you know is it is a part is one of the four hours that say and I think he probably had a fairly major role in the idea of it.

And I think he might. But the beats and stuff. No.

Or did the beats I’m sure Tuttle probably call me out on that and it’s all rolling but anyway one of the four hours and that’s that’s the funny thing is you know we were saying Uk Hip Hop doesn’t really have much of a reach or it didn’t feel like it did but it does now. I’m sitting there by on which is where I’ll tattoo studio is and you see the buy is not a very big place. We’re in the Basque country which is a kind of very unique let’s say in the European sort of spectrum and especially in France where they have their own language which is still being well I say in France it’s actually an area of southwest France and North especially North kindness central Spain. Much bigger in Spain than it is in France much more Basque speakers in Spain as well than in France. But all of that to say are they. Yeah. Geddy and I actually. Yes I’m sure it probably isn’t. But yeah all of that say that we’re earned by on them by on kind of the iconic town or city is a city because it’s got a cathedral. Do I think it’s considered a sitting gives it the captured of the French French Basque Country. Yeah yeah I think basically. And where we have a tattoo studio there that’s called Indigenous Tattoo and we’re actually in one of the places which the Basquiat considered the indigenous people of Europe and there’s not there’s not a gigantic amount of indigenous or at least on the official list of indigenous peoples of Europe and they have their own language which doesn’t have any Latin roots doesn’t have any Germanic roots it’s a phonetic language all of that sets a very small town thing.

And this guy comes in and all of a sudden we’re talking about a four ls I lost my friend from when I was like sixteen but definitely unlike big on just synchronicities or things I think the older you get as reading a thing reason he said that as you get older your brain certain functions it get slower in your brain but then there’s other areas of your brain that improve. One of those is actually seeing connectivity between things and synchronicities and that actually improves with age apparently. And I definitely feel like that for me is improved but I feel like that’s a thing that you should do you believe in it. No I mean an example when we talk about the Jay Z is obviously see to see like the French DMC champions of super good as well. And we were just doing sometimes down here too and when we were doing more t shirts you’d end up just with t shirts you’d fucked up or ones he used for just cleaning your hands and all our old clothes.

Yeah. Oh you know we were wearing surf stuff in the 80s and 90s which is pretty collectible but we did go.

I mean he’s down there we’d go to that one way is more just like a car being on sale. It’s not particularly good high end stuff.

It’s more let’s just knock out in English we say car boot yes car boot sale. The Americans call it a swap meet something like that. I think you know Dr. Dre because. Yeah yeah yeah basically you know where people just KMT out there they’re crap.

Yeah. But then we’re there and we’re selling off T-shirts. You know normally might retail at 20 to 40 or around that area and we just do it to just clean house sometimes. Yeah they got paint splatters when we’ve been paying a wall or something which people can’t sometimes quite like but we’ll be doing t shirts you know maybe like five euros a science so super cheap and one guy came down here is like lips I just have like everything you know. I mean like he’s like I wear girls vests like triplex out and then he’s like Ahmadinejad Israel gave us the mix and and put it on the car and and he was a member of SAE to see where and he just happened to be walking through a car boot so we need to be da.

Yeah I mean he’s heard a beat like I said some people might have possibly heard of by on very rightly or bear experiences the more iconic you can fly the French on Ryanair from Stansted Stansted I think and probably a whole bunch erm we need a Ryanair sponsorship because we use that shit a lot. And my Ryanair hooks up with free flights especially barriers to Stansted and we want Ryanair and AirAsia. Yeah basically. The two probably prime sponsors it saves a lot of money. Come on cheap cheap flights. Yeah yeah I. No no no we’re not going to get sponsored by Emirates even if the fact is that rather Emirates got to do more painting in Hawaii.

But yeah you were saying like on that synchronised stuff we it’s these kind of things which even maybe I think that also once you kind of start thinking about it or maybe you’re slightly aware of it obviously you’re open more to it and you see it more in terms of there’s a word you said surmounting it synchronised destiny SIM card destiny synchro.

Yes I think it said I think Deepak Chopra might have events and lots of people obviously fucking have their opinion on them or ever acquired or I was sick like a few years ago which doesn’t really he’s to detail but I mean it might actually be interesting in other episodes with really specific subject matters. But Deepak Chopra Tony Robbins and ash aren’t from pretty much those three kind of got me back to walking breathing eating and. Stuff like that so I do think he has value even though some people think he’s a bit fraudulent shouts as.

Yeah. Fisher. He’s like the is he the head of the Society of Western Australia.

You can actually listen to that on the podcast English guys Oh yeah. Another London was listening to that yesterday while I walk around a lake.

Thanks. Super super insightful man. Yeah you were interesting. Yeah anyway synchro destiny I guess synchronicity crossed through destiny and again going down that way there’s someone I mentioned it to us and this is another friend of ours who also will probably be in an episode this friend of mine called Mark. He’s a He’s Flemish an old friend of mine as well who were very close friends with who’s also super creative again and and like we said. Yeah.

I mean even artistically he is but like outside of the art thing but business wise and you know he would wear color certain colors for certain meetings really interesting so I would definitely get him on and he loves the synchro destiny as soon as I said it to him he was like he doesn’t want to get a tattoo he won’t let me tattoo him but if he was gonna get something Yeah that’s what you get.

Yeah I mean so I guess that at least gives a basis for the hip hop the why cash how it started.

Yeah at least where that came from and then where. So your studies as well because yeah I was going to say I went up to both art foundation courses off the studying French in France in Bordeaux and then while we’re doing ours just like this just isn’t seeing me. I mean as I got older I probably actually quite enjoy doing well. Either way it was good fun. Yeah. Know it isn’t gone down. I got to see a good time doing it. Art school is kind of like you tried a bit of everything which is brilliant but then at certain points you’d have two projects and I work pretty quickly so my part of the project or I’ve done my project in the first two days or something teacher be annoyed you should wait out the rest of the time or try and do more. But at some point like you can’t you know especially like say watching that portrait painter. Yeah sometimes in my day You should’ve stopped after one hour. It’s easy to over what you’ve done over four hours isn’t as good as what you did in an hour you were better earlier. My work pretty better like that and then Art scores I’m left with a lot of spare time at the end you gotta stand up and sort of talk about what you did justify the teacher already had a bit of a negative things he thought I was just pissing around and it’s like now I’ve actually just done this just the way you work.

Well yeah. One day one day and a lot of it’s more instinctive. I’m not so conceptual or you know I’m not interested in the process but I’m kind of more interested in the longer process of us doing this or the longer tattooing than maybe the actual details of doing it. And I feel like I just about got to a point now painting where I don’t question if I just think that I need to do this I just do it. I don’t there’s no thinking time a toolbox I always know later on me or Nick can go back in incorrect areas that I don’t like so I’ll just keep on layers and layers do it to put stuff on top of it. And it is what I like. Just paint totally over and start again.

Well that kind of comes back around to that thing with the Basquiat and why maybe it looks a little bit Basquiat clearly was obviously really well known for like you know someone will walk into the studio write their name and then maybe something would happen further down the line. And that was very conceptual in there. In actual fact because he wasn’t just doing it for nothing. Yeah. And this is kind of one of the things that I personally have an issue I don’t have an issue with it but what I don’t like about it is if you’re if you’re just doing layers how can I put it like to just just to make it look like Basquiat. Yeah. I don’t find that personally very interesting I’ve got nothing against people doing it but I don’t find it interesting. On the other hand what you what you are saying is the reason we’re doing layers is not so it looks like Basquiat is because you’re building up but then you often have to knock back and or take stuff away so you just print the I start painting y over something or something but it is for a reason. Yeah whatever the reason may be is there. Yeah I guess you could say a reason is to make it look like Basquiat. So whatever. Still a reason but you know what I mean there’s an actual can say process or technical process. And in it but like I said there’s a there’s an artistic reason for it there isn’t it is just.

So it looks like that you know there’s not just a purely aesthetic reason I loved and I had the power to put it but yeah like I said that’s why there’s so many layers because because of that because it often needs to be it can be too clean and detailed for example which is probably my thing and this is why it works interesting together is that I have a tendency to go ultra detailed ultra clean and to the point where it almost doesn’t even look like a painting some pieces I do because I almost work and it looks kind of maybe too flat. In some ways doesn’t have enough texture because I’m you know if I’m filling in black it’s something as simple as I’m filling in black I’ll do like three days a black so it’s black and it’s flat but then your common gnocchi and all but then sometimes your stuff actually needs that. Yeah and my stuff needs the.

I think when you feel you have the styling up to loose is a bit like we’re saying with. Well not so much Warhol say with Picasso where people are below or anyone compact Picasso could. He can also draw like as well as anyone ever. Kind of. It’s an evolution.

Yeah it’s like it’s kind of like where he said with the Eastern philosophy and the ying and yang is like you kind of you learn yeah you get to the thing like a martial art is enough and then you start early and then you’re mostly thing you start unlearning.

And like we say you kind of you’re a baby when you’re born and you’re kind of like a baby when you think you get oh and the bristly all the books with deafening finger me doing some Bruce Lee stuff because you influence you’re massive. But I think a lot of times you know people were criticized seriously who have more in-depth knowledge on things. Oh yeah but he’s just rewriting this book or that. Yeah but you kind of sometimes need to edit in and makes a more cohesive like use you know tar and notoriety as well.

Yes some of somebodies books no one would ever read it unless you actually figure unless he goes ahead and does certainly it’s a bit like what’s that.

The author who did the alchemist powered quite a year because a lot of people who is below are read that and I read on my own ever so much other shit that he’s not these Jack in it.

He’s repurposing it and in a really interesting way you know because that’s for it. For example I’m a huge fan. Yeah.

No I say that and I read it and I just did like nothing for me it didn’t bring anything new to the table not that I know everything but the certain areas he’s going into my I just done that I feel like I’ve done that with or at least already come into contact with the idea or or what he’s trying to convey is like she’s just like yeah I’m kind of getting zero interest out of it where someone like Bruce Lee back to what we’re saying about the process is he’s sort of saying that then goes into the other Asian philosophy or I guess more about mastery really is that you have like your natural state as a human if you took a specific about fighting you have your natural sort of caveman state where you have abilities outside or anything and in the second state you into is when you start learning techniques and learning like a system of fighting different styles and actually in some ways you’re much better because you’re putting in techniques and doing all this stuff but you leave then lost that natural kind of flow and your natural fighting ability is just as a as a human in that we’ve evolved to have just instinctively in our system but then you then get into the third section where you’ve drilled these techniques so much that the techniques then become fused into the natural state and you have natural reaction then becomes to use these high precision techniques and that’s kind of where mastery is for me where you start getting into Yeah well I guess I feel like that I’m not therefore not saying I’m a master painter or anything but I feel like I’m just getting into that phase now of painting since we were kids you know 20 40 years but always doing art school outside of school.

It’s been a pretty much force yet non-stop pace almost been the only thing that we’ve always done. Yeah we went in and out a skating a little bit depending you know like skate park got knocked down Yeah skate park didn’t skate quite so much always had a skateboard it didn’t go in and out but they are it’s just something we’ve done essentially day in day out and I still feel like it’s a learning techniques but we’re learning different you know we do a lot of customization jobs for like clients like Reebok or private clients so you know all different kinds of jobs where suddenly you have to adapt your skill set to a project that is not exactly something you’ve done before.

So there is like a learning curve with all these things but say was strictly just putting paint on a canvas I feel like I’ve done it so much that now I just start and I just start and I do it and it’s like there’s almost no thinking involved okay initially I’ll map something out possibly like a portrait map out the head and then I’m just name just go into it and then it’s just like happening all on its own. And then I feel like if I start questioning it then I’m kind of wasting time and blocking that straight flow and sometimes the whole thing will be different like I’ve done it like maybe it’s start off in the first 10 percent of how it evolves is the same but it’s nothing like and this one just needs just everything black lined around something or this one just needs it’s white in it or let’s see. They’re just things and I’m never like Oh does it really need that I’m just like right. I think that I’m just doing it like you’re not questioning it so you should just do it. And then after that I’m like well it is better it didn’t work out so well I just start that again.

Yeah and like we said that almost comes to the thing of white out. Yeah. Paint back on it and that creates texture and it creates something that’s so the light or interesting I think then if you’ve just done it right. To start with.

You know in a way in a weird way you know I mean I guess where a song at Basquiat is actually going and more flat color where I’m generally building up layers of he was going home with the flow as well.

Yeah. Like what you’re saying about that sort of flow state you that I don’t think that Dave was questioning anything for.

From what I have seen or understood or the interviews you know those that I think sometimes will be the same as I sometimes say I’ll just get out like ten canvases and I’ll just start 10 at a time. Yeah I’ll work one at a time yeah. And even if you’ve got one that’s the main thing I’m like oh I’ve just ended up squeezing too much blue out a tube so I’m just gonna paint. Half in this next canvas just blew just because the paint.

And this is what we said this is the thing in why we want it almost to do this podcast. This stuff is our creative processes together.

Even though like we said there’s a lot of the same influences we’re brothers. We’ve got the same parents we like very similar things we were playing basketball martial arts. Like we said hip hop all of the music influence and everything like that.

But like I said I can only work on one project at a time and your natural kind of instinct is to do it totally different. Like you said loser I’m I’m. I’m doing this stuff tighter. Well why is this. Or was it very hard to explain or you know a hard to put down what it is but it’s just I think they these are these kinds of things where they are unexplainable almost.

Well some ways but it’s interesting to talk about you know it’s almost like you said like trying not to or getting to that point where you’re not questioning yourself too much but then obviously you’re forever questioning yourself and you’re forever learning stuff.

And I think you think it’s always interesting Mort because we all almost just accepted you know there’ll be times where you like to do something in one of us just look at it and see the other one just does not like what the other one’s done a tool. Yes. And there have been more back and forth year for yet where now you just like you know what I’m trying to live either. Yeah it’s done a. It was one thing and just done over less to do things differently which is awesome let’s say like we got literally sitting right in front of me in the studio now. If I look at the projects that we got there rolling. One of them’s a skateboard with quite a lot of detail things for someone’s birthday. And I know if I look at it I know if you started it you spend two or three days working out how to plan it all out and where to put things. Yeah.

The elements that she say specifically asked for something like that I’d take ages I run like no time artistic.

And I can see roughly what’s gonna be the main elements how the other things are going to fit in in some there’ll be some sort of order.

This one of he has sea mountain Suns I might well you put the sun at the top the mountains in the middle see at the bottom obviously then there’s other things going into it like giraffe elephant bowls and noodles chili an otter holding a record you know there’s like lots of other weird things you need to suffix that we were asked to. Yeah. You need to kind of fit into it but I’m just like well I can just do that quickly and then I’ll just work on it to a point I’m like You know what I’ve done not all I can do here but I’ve done it to a point where the bit that Nick can do well the more detail clean work would then just compliment the sort of messy sketchy work I’ve done to start with and that’s how generally my style projects work sometimes. Then on a skateboard maybe that’s it. If you’re talking bigger things like murals or something there’ll be more one or the other my back where either one or the other doing it say someone better portray Michael Jordan on a pair of Air Jordans and will never do that. So he’s just better on the detail work and it’s a similar surface.

Yeah it’s such a small you know lightweight that’s it say you kind of have to do it detailed to a certain extent because you can’t do a big loose portrait like you would on a on an A1 or on a zero you piece of paper or whatever it is way you do a great Matt Michael Jordan Yeah. You know it’s not that I can do portray and you can’t it’s like you said it’s actually yes because it’s specific it’s so small things like that it kind of needs you tight work otherwise it’s just not going to look like Michael Jordan.

And also because I work so days I see like well there’s no point in both of us learning how to do or not learning how to trying to force trying to master all aspects all the aspects to cannula or I just go with it illustrates something of all trades master and I’m Jack of all trades master of none. So I kind of like I feel like say running your own business specifically you kind of have to build all trades are done that’s where you get into if you think combined or most jacks of all trades and that’s where I kind of get worried for.

So I mean it were difficult to talk about but I mean maybe not fully going into but obviously the Pistache thing and the tattoo thing involves it because we are an artistic duo yeah where a lot of people we know who are doing art it like they’re just totally doing it on their own. Hardman Yeah it’s tough because Okay so suddenly you get L and you can’t work for six months or a week or whatever it is usually about an hour and you’re just super tired from whatever but then when there’s two of you the other person can pick up the slack and sometimes things just get done and you didn’t actually have to do anything.

Yeah and it’s just been done which is awesome.

And like I said you know like certain projects which would take you if you’re by yourself you’re not really the kind of thing down your line well twice as much chance as the one or the other is is going to naturally either feel the projects or be bad just like we said technically or to have more of a feeling for that sort of style work that kind of comes back. The thing I was saying I don’t know is in this one or the other one when I was saying about the kid learning to that I’m going to teach how to hand poke a little bit. Well I was sort of saying to as it’s really like say in the tattoo studio it’s exactly the same. Well sometimes one might design it and the other one might tattoo it but in general it goes down well either you do the designing and you tattoo them or I did designing and tattoo them but also the tattooing is an interesting one on top of that and we will definitely do a you know. Come into conversations probably fairly often because that is one of the main things we do nowadays. But it’s a very specific sort of thing and there’s a lot of there’s a lot more because you spend time with the person and because the way the type of tattooing we’re doing is very symbolic symbology it’s kind of going back into the roots of tattooing a little bit. So not only is it symbolic in the use of symbols but it’s also symbolic in that most people are coming to get a tattoo to mark something that’s happened in their life or stuff like that. So you have a very well I’m trying to say is you have a very quick deep connection with the person and that also is a huge part as to whether you tattoo the more idea it’s who kind of clicks with the person who can maybe empathize with the person who has the feeling with the person the funny thing is when we talking about sync our destiny stuff.

A lot of times I mean a lot to the message and it just happened they just happen to want a Thai style or mock Asian which is more your thing or a really interested in Scandinavian and Nordic and Celtic and stuff which I just can’t find us because if they come to the studio. I mean we’re not always there. It’s more like a private studio because we do so much other artwork that it’s only Germany open where we have open days or when we’re actually tattooing people.

It’s very half that half of our actual work time which is obviously a big that’s why I’m saying this is why I was going to come in because we’re spending half of our time tattoo.

If you wanted to try I mean there’s a lot of randomness in who they could end up in a phone calling or walking into the child organ shop and Germany at the time they just they fall on the person who Yeah and the few years that we’ve been doing it’s only very occasionally where I’ll be like well you need to get.

Although having said that I might be tattooing someone. Yeah.

And we obviously decorate the walls and everything like that and they’ll see something that’s like like you said Thai or Cambodian influence like on the SAT Kent style thing and they’ve gotten through no. Yeah like a Scandinavian style tattoo for me. But then they want the thing like Frank for example here is a good client of ours. So you both of us have tattooed him and he’s got both those things but like you said the synchro destiny happened that my client then wanted yeah something that you do and I’ll pass them on to you or vice versa.

A lot of times it’s almost like I feel like sometimes people see almost the tattoo almost like an art. I feel like sometimes people just pay us to say money to just come and like lie on the tattoo thing and just so you know it’s like they’re like some kind of ideology end up being like. So some sort of therapist because in a way you then think about how many people were tattooed around the area and how well you know some of those people then you know things about them their family and friends right now you don’t necessarily know them as well as they do but you know them and that’s the odd thing that you open up.

It’s a very intimate thing. And on top of it this is something else because we do. I don’t know whether we’re even. Yeah we did explain it in the last episode but we say we’re doing handpicking so basically just a needle put in the ink and start poking away. But the one of the things that changes everything say compared to going into just a let’s say an or you know 99 percent of the places that you’re going to go and tattooed anywhere in the world you’re going to get machined and when the machines running it makes a lot of noise and yes obviously it’s you know some machines make more and there’s more machines and then there’s the difference of rosaries and etc. But there’s still a machine running and it’s making noise and it’s more difficult to have that intense chat you know and a lot of time you just sit there when you get tattooed and dealing with the pain.

Yeah. And this is another thing with it with the technique is it’s a lot less painful. Yeah. Again you know it’s all relative. But a tattoo gun runs like you know it’s poking you 140 forty times a second and we’re poking a few times a second you know logic do the maths you know that way you’re not really bleeding there’s no kind of bruising.

We have a much direct connection to the depth. Yeah. Not saying you do better tattoo is hand poked tattoo.

Yeah I mean you know like a friend of ours or a friend of yours more but a friend of ours Kai who tattooed me the other day we did a taxi exiled podcast came in and guested our shop and he has a machine tattoo artists and I haven’t been machine for years but my memories and machining was probably quite painful and I was almost a little bit kind of anxious stressed out about it and I was just amazed man. And on top of that he wasn’t using one of these modern light machines.

He was using you traditional machine or whatever but there was barely like a drop of blood. The lines are unbelievable. You know he didn’t go in like what you were saying about poking into too deep or whatever and the work was just outstanding you know.

Yeah I mean you can actually if you want to check out some of these works get better idea we’re talking about on Instagram his song song real underscore tattoo essay n g r e a well understood that was a little bit of the French accent and it’s kind of like sang Creole.

Yeah she’s saying the real English out either way. Yeah his works great. His works really great. It’s funny. Like all of these things like we said Everything comes full circle and the people that you meet and everything like that and going back to the Bruce Lee thing I find really interesting at the moment and this is also something which like I said with my friend Stu will probably do one that’s really more how can I say no more martial arts based.

He’s one of the people who I know who’s been the martial arts for the longest other than actual teachers and much older guys.

You know we go into that a little bit at some point but all of that to say that you know like a lot of people put down the the the Bruce Lee stuff for example but kind of Bruce Lee and a lot of ways is is a little bit the father of mixed martial arts. You know he’s one of the first guys because we were back in the days. You know it was very or in his era. It was very you know you learn from one person you don’t leave you master Oz this is the best technique. This is you know this is anyone you know and this includes boxing obviously which is a martial art as far as I’m concerned that you know any type of fighting boxing’s best kickboxing is best. All of this kind of thing. And you know he was one the first person at least in traditional martial arts to say take a bet. Let’s take a bet that which is super interesting and incredibly you know ahead of him in judo Jean Labelle is right.

Okay maybe Perry the two people who two guys who kind of the philosophy almost and the idea of mixing these things and that maybe that’s a better way.

It’s really interesting you know like we’ve been fighting people of different styles more and not just street fight but actually trying to get competition against different styles. Both of those guys happy.

Yeah. Because obviously like UFC for example I mean it’s is a huge thing nowadays. And the great thing about it.

I mean obviously people that know about it was kind of like the UFC and the idea of actually the original contest kind of came through the Gracie family trying to promote their own child promote their own style. So it was more of like a style on style. And who’s is the best which you know is a kind of like we said it’s an age old debate. Well you know you’ll hear Kung Fu you’ll hear karate you’ll hear this. You hear jujitsu the Japanese the Chinese the. And then into you know the Russian stuff and then the Sambo and in wrestling and which is best and which you know. And it’s it’s it’s an age old debate and there’s no way but what I find really interesting about it is that for example so that’s kind of the aim. But like you said when you actually know about it they were doing it to promote their own and show you this is the best yet which a lot people think it’s like well let’s see who’s who’s is the best. But the UFC to begin with was very much a guy came in here was a judo guy.

There was even a sumo wrestler or there was you know like all these different styles or a dude was it was the guy who was wearing like one boxing club or whatever and he’s like 50 years old someone frankly for either.

All types of interesting guys and you know the Thai boxing obviously. And so to say all of that then it kind of morphed the natural evolution logic evolution as well is that people realized you got to be able to fight on your feet and on the ground. And so now it’s in an evolutionary period where the younger guys have actually grown up with that. So instead of coming from a martial law and then mixing into others like which are kind of generation of people would have done our age group they’re actually starting from the get go. But then again then this whole question comes up of where which is best because if you’re going to say well we’re not mastering any style. Yeah. And that’s that’s incredibly good. Yeah. It’s also incredibly bad because you know you have to be proficient on your feet and on the ground. But then someone like the whole hey mass Fidell like you gets Ben asker and was kind of one these things where it’s like you’ve got one of the best wrestlers in mixed martial arts and I mean the whole Hamas model is actually quite well rounded but he’s essentially a street fighter you know who is in that Kimbo Slice area where he is probably boxing super well rounded it just coming out that he’s a really good wrestler and good but he knocked him out as quick as knockout initially.

So it’s like well Astrid’s wrestling didn’t matter. But then if let’s delve into it well the reason why he was able to knock him out as a new he’s a wrestler and he knows going to rush in low yeah and he almost slightly he said and kind of almost proved that this was a plan. Yes he knew he’s going to come in low cause he’s a wrestler and cause asses. But on the other hand if asker and gets you on the floor yeah unless probably the only thing then is if you’re super good jujitsu and especially Brazilian jujitsu you’re good at fighting off your back. Let’s say that’s the only way that you can combat a wrestler and even still. But then we say Well that is that Brazilian jujitsu well Brazilian jujitsu comes from judo it doesn’t even come from jujitsu you directly. But judo comes from Jitsu. But then you know Eddie Bravo or something like that he took Brazilian jujitsu and then took it into another thing and then you got the guy who’s the leg lock guy Danaher. Yeah. You know he’s then take the take in Brazilian jujitsu and put it in the leg locks and anyone. He’s really into jujitsu competition.

That’s where it’s at the moment is it’s this leg lock thing and start with like that competitions. They thought it was totally useless. Well almost not that it was you. Well some have used it but in some light come early Brazilian juicy stuff. They’d be like Oh you’re not allowed to do like dogs or not you’re not allowed to but it frowned upon. It’s kind of cheating. It’s like well if it’s cheating does that does not mean it’s really good. Yeah. Oh you can’t do leg locks because that’s like cheating. It’s like.

And this is also the thing is like what if you’re starting to go down that path. Well the UFC is quite a good test of which martial law and what’s practically works but you’re in a way you’re not in the ring you’re in. You know you’re in the octagon but it’s the same as being in the ring or in a cage or wherever you know you can use the cage. Yeah. That’s also another thing like how Rogan says he thinks it should be just on like a football field. Yeah. You know well you can’t use a cage. I mean that’s a whole nother thing and we’re getting into martial arts and probably stop here because we’ll do a wheelchair. We’ll do one so that people who are into it can actually see it’s maybe not interesting for people who are thinking it’s OK. Now we’re talking about that as a martial art. But what I wanted to say just to wrap up that thing is that because there’s rules you know you can’t you can’t I gouge you can’t fish hook. You can’t kick in the balls. Well if we’re talking now street fight. Yeah. A lot of the time was the best thing to do kick someone in the balls and just walk off.

Well you know the thing about rules is amazing when you think about graffiti versus street sign. But then before we get into like leave bull kicking in the bull’s eye I remember like in the first style of martial art we did it about 10 years was like a like a shell in Kung Fu system which is really like they talk a lot.

Yang Yeah. Shit on yeah.

Kang FU I mean regardless the sparring style was tai chi one day when you actually did competitions which has a bit more respect and that’s how you probably going be the best at learning how to kick but then one of the first time one of the come one of the teams they just realized Rosie can just kick someone in the balls twice if you don’t do it three times you don’t get the squat if you don’t get disqualified and you can win.

So you might as well just kick him in the balls twice person can’t fight and then win next year.

You know I mean and then but then that’s obviously my rounds of them but are you there to win or you’re not there to win are you there to show like are you there.

But then that comes that comes with the rules of the same with the UFC isn’t it like the rules just stick your thumb deep in someone’s eye socket. Yeah and then be like Sorry I did that and you might get disqualified you might just get enough.

And are you there representing the philosophy of your martial art which is not the time especially with like current you know shouting Kung Fu the Buddhist based thing. Yeah. You know like essentially so you are you there to to be a stand up guy as you know and to show and to show like you know shake people’s hand or shake their hand there’s all of that. And at the end of the day when we’re saying like a street fight is a street fight you got to be an imbecile if you’re going to start like dancin and boxing and weave in and stuff like that. It’s like like what we said when we were actually learning kung fu. We had a male and a female teacher and a female teacher told all of females and all the females out there.

This is a great like thing to know especially if you were in high heels but anyone actually females or non females if you were in hard shoes.

But the reason I said females is if you’re in high heels even better just stamp on someone’s foot and run just a layer. They’re not gonna run after you because therefore it’s going to be shattered unless they were in security boots or something and even still with a high heel. If it’s done and that’s actually a really good thing to know you’re going to turn the podcast into self-defense. We’re definitely have to have a disclaimer if we do that like we are not going to say yeah. Yeah.

The great thing about it is is that like not only can you then run and even if someone’s bigger or stronger or faster runner there and then they run in fast you unless you know whatever. But the other thing is it’s incredibly unexpected and it’s almost impossible to defend against or anything like that you’d never going to expect.

People are always kind of you know even if they know how to fight you’re looking at those little things of is someone going to shrug their shoulder because they come the good thing with the helmet is Jimmy did that then worked out and he did Judo JuJitsu Taichi other things was there like the bicycle motto was just assume nothing you know. Yeah yeah. We’ve met up with people like Father Christmas. You kick your arse. You meet some big data supermarket who doesn’t know shit. I guess it comes back if we weave it backgrounds are things is really like well no style or anything is Tiki better it’s like how much time if you put into your style it’s like okay so is karate about the jujitsu it’s like well it’s like how long one hour of jujitsu training better than you know a thousand hours of karate training then you also put in variables about PSI people’s size your health like flexibility is one of the people blind.

Yeah yeah yeah yeah for sure. If you’d been hit in the head before you know if you’ve already been concussed you see this a lot in the UFC that until someone gets Kayo but from the first time they got Coyote yeah they’ve got nothing left. MAN Yeah. And and as we know personally we’re not gonna get into it but it’s super dangerous it’s super dangerous you know I think we could very well go in that a friend of ours I mean we talk to his wife about it saying it is definitely so down.

Soon as well. Yeah. They make the most of it possibly saying too ferry runs again but supporters are what we’ll get.

We’ll talk about that some other time. Yeah we’ll deal with them with rules and.

It might be a good point then turn back round so the graffiti Street Art Street Art thing where like I guess when we start doing what you call Street Art like I see a lot of other artists getting pissed off about is this cool Street Art or is it urban art or is it graffiti or you know what. What are the actual things and to start with it’s like Who gives a shit. But now I’m kind of a point race like well I see semi give a shit because we’ll get people doing projects so they’re talking about bigger street art projects around here and there’ll be people don’t know what they’re talking about. Talking about graffiti and then they’ll be constructing a whole case or talking about something you like or you just don’t know what graffiti is. I can’t stand here and debate you or listen to you because you’re just using you know it’d be like someone saying oh you know I’m doing brain surgery or I’m doing mind surgery or something you know. I mean it’s later Okay so there’s obviously some kind of connection between these things but it’s not the same thing. Okay so one’s evolution of the other. You know that goes back to just cave paintings or ever and I guess this goes back in the Pistache thing because I guess I guess we can do a Segway sort of thing where it’s like we can go from say it was like a hip hop clothing company and then you move to fit well we both moved to France at a certain point and we’re like right so we’re not in London we can’t go and give like you know there’s a shooting a music video. So we’ll go and take closed door we were there and the Basquiat the video 24/7 whereas now we’ve just back and forth all the time.

But like you said we are essentially living yeah.

So do you stuff with hip hop models have the easy access like where you can just be like oh something’s happening in half an hour. Just go there and be there and do it. And then we’re in France is more surf skate board riding culture and we sort of flowed more into that. Started working with a lot more brands like quicksilver Roxy those kind of things. Yeah. So the surf too. Yeah. So it became more board sport based. And now it’s we’re still in the clothing and the board sport space but it’s become more of a street are contemporary art kind of area that we’re interested in working in more than anything else.

Probably one of the very early podcasts that you’ll be hearing very soon will.

Well we’ll do we’ll do one about this Street Art or FEC but nah will pop art contemporary art.

We may even do it by ourselves but we’ll probably try and at least get some snippets of some of the people because again you know we’re lucky enough to know super iconic people and come across you know we were seeing last year we were we ate dinner with Martha Cooper here like we were sitting there with the lady Monica Kramer. So yeah from one up or with her gallery you know it’s one of the most iconic street orthography where ever you want to. You know we’re on the other side of the world doing we’re invited to paint in you know the old called sign festival in Kuala Lumpur. You know I mean like if I was next to an Australian crew I can’t remember what they were called but you know again just iconic iconic people. And it’s super interesting obviously to hear those people at the Summit of the the thing or you know like who are the top top guys to hear what they have to say about it because like we said this Street Art graffiti are whether you’re using a spray Cam whether using a brush whether your you know stencils thing whether you’re not censoring what’s cheating what’s not unlike like you said from our point of view who gives a shit.

But people really do give a shit. It’s there’s less of a give a shit. Yeah that’s almost the province more diving isn’t it. Yeah. Graffiti I guess like you know a mood talking to Martha capers. She was almost saying that like the origins of graffiti.

Like if you go right back to the beginnings well the beginnings of you know not like graffiti you can still call it that shit going back to ancient times but in modern times going back 50 years or something like that sort of the modern history of graffiti to start with like the very very first graffiti art most most didn’t consider it actually as a part of hip hop and they felt like it’s a totally different area and then some artists feeling like it is an element of hip hop and then it kind of has become a thing where graffiti is one of the elements of real hip hop. Essentially the five elements. But start with this like they’re not looking like that till it almost pissed off that it’s got connected with and it almost became more it’s more like a territorial marking thing with tags is almost the base of it then evolves into styles in the tags more and then you know create a more style in the lettering different areas get different letter styles that then get. So it is something that kind of grows up with like a rules system and stuff like that even though it’s supposed to be so counter-culture and people you know we spray paint a what you would call a Street Art mural on a wall recently over a graffiti crease thing and then everyone’s like they’re gonna get super pissed off for this. And I think it gives a class it’s like in some like somebody a they’re like a really small time current a really small fucking.

Place you know I mean it’s not like they’re literally going to come in like a knife and when it comes down to it it’s ice no roads and like yeah we’re not doing it in the Bronx.

You know this is like these are legal walls. Yeah they let me go a in a really fancy beachside Kim White southwest France.

You know I mean it’s not just just to quickly say actually to give back ranks we’re talking about it Martha Cooper.

Anyone who doesn’t know Google her. She is incredible. She along with I guess enrich our font as well. They didn’t give us books in any way that basically kind of really led us into graffiti is she. She did the books with her which outfit. She’s basically a graffiti photographer.

I guess you could say journalist she was a journalist as she was a journalist who then yeah like kind of got really into the scene.

And I mean she’s incredible I don’t know how old she is. Yeah. And she’s still hiding in the bushes like you know shooting illegal so so-called illegal activities.

And also the other thing I just wanted to save people is with the when we would talk about the five elements of hip hop and like what you’re saying whether whether the graffiti goes into it but the let’s say official five elements of hip hop is is basically so it’s graffiti is one of them emceeing. Obviously the rapper deejaying the J B buoying which is the breakdancing I guess you could say basically b boy break boy whatever you know the dancing and then beatboxing Yeah it’s the fifth night. Yeah.

Just so people know I’m always teasing my wife saying she should become a beatbox. Have thought that will get her on the shoulder in that way.

I’d love to get a beatbox are on here. I mean we’ve been here long enough to see Biz Markie.

Yeah. Who. I don’t know if he was the original. Again you know who was the first one there he was like he was certainly I think someone who was a game changer beat but I mean it’s got to be someone who really just went.

It. Exactly.

He said he’d just walk around like basically make a noise. Yeah but there’s the whole thing make the music with your mouth. Yeah. You know all of that stuff. And then to the evolution I mean we actually did a show not all that long ago can’t remember the name of the guy who is a beatbox a couple years like right. Yeah. He’s incredible. But then for us it was kind of it moved from that old school beatboxing like we said that Bismarck he kind of era and then there was it was the wrong video. We’re also with the world and everything like that whereas all of a sudden the dude’s making like you know like we’re seeing a multilayered be really with really rigorous scary sorry areas. Kurt arousal and we obviously got the chance to see him as well. Kelly Keller he was a game changer beardy man.

Yeah a lot of those people mean just seeing like not necessarily their first gig but when some of those people were just literally standing around with like 10 feet. It’s the same with that makes you think about dynamo like the magician. Yeah yeah. There’s a period remember just in London and in shout out to China why again for getting VIP into all these things. But there’s probably a year where every say you go to a big daddy kane concert and you go into the VIP thing and some little kid doing like crazy card tricks all the people in the VIP. And you just like oh he’s just there like every fucking week. And then suddenly not suddenly because you know people think like he just comes out nowhere and and has what Sharon’s Channel comes massive celebrity it’s like he put in the work and you know he put in to work with or even talking about come into VIP events hip hop the VIP areas in hip hop events he’s honing his skills of actually learning how to do the tricks before you even tested them on that. You know that’s like it’s just.

And those hip hop things like we said were still relatively small there’s not. Yeah. Gigantic crowd compared to then going onto TV and then all of those things but it’s it’s interesting with these evolutions and as well someone I mean on a totally different thing but I’ve got to show him out on the hip hop thing is Doc Brown. Yeah. And I guess maybe a few people or no doc on our show because of this especially stuff we done wreckage of a year and wreckage of a super interesting. So maybe we’ll have Doc on some point as well that would be a really cause that goes down the comedy route which again is like another whole different creative creative culture and that’s come from you know friends of ours when we were younger.

So that could be really interesting as well and definitely someone else to get on. I guess we’re proud of being again. And a fair farewell. So maybe we’ll try and wrap it up that’s that gives you an idea.

You know we’re definitely going to go into all these different domains of creativity to keep in it Artie but like trying to get kind of I guess you could say artistic people or creative people within all these different realms Yeah whether it wherever it may be is probably the way we’re gonna go to start with you know and see where it goes from there and he subjects off the top of your head you kind of buying to go out.

I mean what right now. Well not necessarily right now but we want a thing that you can be possibly put out and and people would be like Yeah yeah I’d like to do that one I hear this one.

It goes without saying as well. Chuckles Some you know like some subjects and stuff like that yeah. You’d like to get into even if you’d like to talk to us direct. About it you know and B. B on the podcast even possibly some point via obviously Skype if it’s not the bill in the flesh. I kind of like the the Rogan thing of doing in the flesh but obviously he’s in a totally different position than the Major.

It’s always slightly different when you’re in the flesh and when you’re not but either way I mean it would have at the end of day is also only a Ryanair flight from UK Stansted or wherever to bare its airport.

You can get to beer it’s you can get to Bilbao in Spain you can get to Bordeaux or various You see breezy is kinda right.

I can just come pick you up. Yeah we can definitely tell you do something cool and shoot an episode but I quite want to get into a well like Star Wars and shit like that and the creativity behind that may be more the initial George Lucas stuff. Basing it on sort of samurai culture and the curse our sort of films and then I definitely get into some of the because we are an artistic duo some of the artistic duos in art. There’s not that many. Occasionally there’s like there’s actually quite a few couples who’ve done quite well I know. You know like in literature like Sartre and. Well yeah. All these kind of people. I do not know how you can like a creative project with your husband or wife like. I mean it’s one thing doing it well brother Frank girlfriend or. Yeah it’s a different dynamic. I don’t know how those people I was watching something last night knows about they’re talking about like the X-Men films and franchise and what’s been good and bad in that home and it had the they had the X-Men cartoon. I guess it’s probably in the 90s. There was actually really cool and I think 10 lock people onto it and then found out that was created by a husband and wife team and they were on it to hang about and that made me think again it’s like I don’t know how to do that but I was thinking more creative Jason and more that popped in my mind was filmmakers right.

Yeah. Where you get the sort of you know Scorsese DeNiro what Scorsese then DiCaprio and even like when you’re going back to Lucas SPELLBERG Yeah. Lucas produced SPIELBERG DIRECTOR Yeah well those are all a whole bunch of directors around that running around that whole thing that’s really interesting how these people work together and how they went about that and sometimes you like almost looking at you like I didn’t. Sometimes you don’t even notice how much like some people are working with specific other people behind the scenes and they obviously have different projects so different things go on you like Oh yeah. Shit that hasn’t had loads of work with someone over the other thing whereas a lot of Josie’s music is Oh yeah of course. So White Stripes yeah one of those couple but I think my are they.

Other than I wouldn’t. So that’s a terrible example of that. But again I know. There And Do I wear there’s. Yeah they’re not a group that well they were group group but it was like these are like right.

But yeah there’s gonna be loads of music there’s lots of stuff you know we’re big fans.

James Taylor as well and there’s the stuff with Carole King. He seemed to have interesting relationships with all types of people. Yeah. He’d actually be someone to reach out to as well actually I mean like who knows whether we could get him but we did see him in concert not all that long ago. And he’s in a really interesting guy on the on the travelling and the artistic stuff. So that’s something. But yeah I’m saying that you need to have your own private conversations about who we should be getting on the folk right before you get our shot. Yeah. Is that a shot well at least some of the people I know are not yet definitely going to be real soon as well. You know like certainly because they’re friends of ours. So yeah it’s just a matter of timing and you try to work out a time when we can do it. DB another thing I’d like to get into and I don’t know if it’s really actually the appropriate and this is quite funny the way even the word appropriate runs into its cultural appropriation. Yeah I get that we’ve got to talk about it. Yeah and no doubt a lot of people are going to get offended. Yeah let me put that one but we got good experience on that. It’s something I really want to get into. Yeah like you know I mean I’m not going to say it right now but we kind of go into it with someone. Yeah. The guys call I got no issues with him. Well he’s called and he’s not cool but whatever he’s over fucking ask yeah yeah To be honest yeah but like we have a treat people like oh yeah he’s got his own opinion but it goes into this whole thing of like race and culture and it we’re really kind of interested in it from again probably more the tattooing side of things and our own because we’ve got like when I was talking earlier about Indigenous kind of peoples of Europe with the Basque and stuff.

So we’ve got like a half on our mum’s side there is also an indigenous people of Europe Ukrainians and it’s basically it was a part Finland was taken by Russia. There’s a there’s a lot of depth and there was a winter war between the two countries etc. But in Finland is a really interesting place as well no doubt. And this kind of ties in with my friend Isaac who I wanted to get on it who’s actually married to offend and is living over there and working over there which would be interesting but we’ve also got the lapse the Sami up north. Yeah. To be politically correct or whatever yeah. That is what everyone knows of his Lapland and it’s like an indigenous people in the north. Whereas where the indigenous people from the south the Canadians. Like I said. But it’s something that I think is more happening in the states sort of this talk about cultural appropriation and to kind of you know it’s a start with people make an assumption that culture appropriations are purely negative thing where there’s a lot of pro cultural appropriation.

It’s a very Interlaken viewpoint is being pro and not that it’s a negative thing and then is also you know you just get these examples where like I watched a program recently they’re talking about like fried chicken and obviously the connotations about you know talking about whether the titular well black people should even be eating fried chicken they’re talking about sort of the history of fried chicken and connecting it to slavery right. I mean if you’re eating it you’re disrespecting your own heritage yo you. You’re more respecting it. Yeah and I saw that the flip the follow on from that. That doesn’t just leave that statue thing I saw a white person had done a painting that had fried chicken in it and and should he or not.

Should he have been able why people wearing dreads.

Yeah schedule tight. Should a white person be able to paint a painting with fried chicken and things like that. So that girl again when problems totally reject white. Oh a Chinese dress or something like that right.

Yeah yeah I heard about that recently. That’s gonna be a really. That stuff. Yeah. I agree that we’ve got to get into. I mean we were you know to talk about it still a little bit briefly we were kind of essentially not attacked. I don’t give a shit but someone who has really given us a hard time and it’s like we don’t know each other he sees white people and because we’re why he thinks that we don’t have any kind of culture or anything and this is a big problem. I personally think in modern times and it’s just through the evolution of how things are but like we said he kind of like he called us out on the name Indigenous Tattoo and sort of said are you indigenous and we’re like well I said as far as I’m concerned and if you look at the word everyone’s indigenous to somewhere and you has roots and indigenous roots it’s just how far back you want to go and we’re all and what we kind of the way that we really and what I wanted to say is the way that we really look at things is that like the more that you know about this kind of thing everything’s connected and that’s that’s the beauty of it. Yeah sure that’s kind of the beauty of it. As far as we’re concerned yeah is that we had a symbol and the guy who we’re talking about is like Native American and they have a symbol and the two symbols are basically exactly the same and that’s because our people came out in northern Asia. Well I say all people on the on the Canadian side and obviously the Native Americans with the old bearing straights walks from northern Asia into into North America you know and then and know a lot of these things we just go changing all the time anyway.

It’s like you can say you know like we definitely done enough research on it and then but then you look at someone like Graham Hancock totally change the way everyone’s view is only like oh that didn’t happen and people are making these huge assumptions but you can do it gypped to logs you know spent their life and you understand why they’ve spent their life studying something but you have to if you’re really interested in the culture you’ve got to understand the cultural stuff you’ve got to understand that these things are going to happen in every what we thought 100 years about anything like this go back to it you know right racism and all these kinds of things that were generally accepted and thankfully it’s not accepted anymore. But you know I mean. So this is you know this is a really deep subject and something which goes far and like we said you know it’s misconceptions of words and at least look at what the word means in a fuckin dictionary. You know because if you’re going to say well the guy’s saying are you indigenous and we’re like yeah so so so what. So you come from North America it’s like well what the fuck what the fuck are you talking about. To be Indigenous doesn’t mean you’re indigenous to North America. An indigenous North Americans are actually indigenous to Asia and indigenous Asians are indigenous to where or does it all go back to Africa and these are things that people talk about at the moment and that’s never really accepted but even that you know they find remains of another kind of humanoid in like eastern Asia recently.

And the oldest is the elephant research. You know the continental shelves rising and one side in Africa and dipping how far back you go in the world coming out of water like totally different.

Yeah exactly. Did we even evolve from chimpanzees that we evolved did where did chimpanzees evolve from the oldest apparently from what I can. Well I’ve been reading recently as they’re kind of saying that the Aboriginal Australians are the kind of quote unquote oldest peoples in the world at the moment I don’t know how that works. But with DNA studies genetic studies and stuff like that they seem to have somehow even compared to a lot of African peoples you know they seem to have like an older connection. I don’t know whether that’s that they’ve been where they are the longest or what.

I mean you know I guess he also gets in to say with the tattoo things as you then get people are like well say Maori tattoo is for example I saw a girl doing she’s like full but Maori. She’s doing marry taxes and she’ll only tattoo them or Maori people. And like I can’t stand if you. It’s kind of like an artistic like sometimes the more limitations you have on you are the better it is. You know if you won the lottery I married. I can do anything. You’re not saying like you know people with crazy art budgets don’t you get stuff but you kind of you know you have no limitations so you know some Acme interesting adverts and say that’s what everyone else has to do not like even should thus they have to you have to hear here. That’s the difference as well. Yeah I mean that’s really all boils down to index like you do your thing and then you can say what you think is right. I don’t feel like you should be telling anyone really what they have to.

We end up getting into like debates about democracy and democratic and what is it.

You know the right to say what you want to say or not and then what what should what should be not which what should you not be able to say and that goes into the whole YouTube thing which is also interesting and like social media in them and Facebook and all that stuff about you know who’s being who’s been blocked who who’s allowed to say what their name comes to like I’m pretty sure say when we were kids that the most extreme people seem to be extreme far right.

I’m sure this whole is going to upset plenty of people. But like it seems now that the far left the problem say with people on the extreme left point of view is that they are never going to get banned from social media. They generally not ever on running social media’s extreme left but they’re generally left leaning so they’re not really silencing any voices on the left. And I mean generally speaking as I associate more with voices on the left you know I mean like it’s political but then they’re like well you’re only getting rid of people who are being extreme right. You’re kind of balancing or taken to balance out and then you’re making your people on the far left look more extreme because people aren’t hearing that much on the extreme right and the extreme left is almost even more telling people what to do Yeah the extreme right.

Ok so not the time the extreme right they’re doing it but they’re not saying necessarily everyone else should do it. Yes it depends. I mean I see you know actually before we forget when you’re talking about the marriage stuff earlier. That’s another one that we’re going to do a show on this we’ve got another one of the incredibly influential people in our lives a guy called Mike clamp and he’s not actually living down here anymore even he was but he comes in now and I think he’ll be around this summer. So this would be one that will record in the summer hopefully this summer. But we will if not we’ll do it distance. He’s moved back to New Zealand but he was an ex all black. I think he was on the all Maori team thing as all the Maori Player of the year. Yeah he. I don’t know how in each tries he scored for the All Blacks but he was someone who came to the summit but we met him actually through his ties with Quicksilver down here. But you know when we talk about all these kinds of things he might actually be a really good person because the great thing about him is that not only does he have these ultra deep connections with the Maori culture but he is actually half English and half Maori. His dad his dad’s a white English origin at least that his mum is the Maori but the great thing about him is that he’s ultra knowledgeable but he’s also ultra ultra nice. Yeah. Couldn’t come across a nicer dude and he’s like do what you want. You know I mean but at the same time I love you. He also is quiet like protect not potato of his culture but very knowledgeable.

But you know when I started doing the tattoo stuff I was gonna mainly do Polynesian which just then ended up being Mock Asian style more than anything else. That’s very not even how you say it in English that’s pretty much because they’re in the French way of doing it they’re gonna get better English French makes up. Yeah I do remember saying you know looking at Maori tattoo is like oh maybe you should do things you know from your own culture which I’ve ended up actually really year almost essentially doing enormous only two and now other than but then again back to I guess the cut that flips back to the cultural appropriation style thing in the same specifically with tattooing. It’s like certain cultures like Maori culture Japanese culture there’s certain things where they’re always going to be continually like a stain tattoo style that people always going to get with whether they get them done well or badly is another another issue. But then some of the cultures like members me or my wife were quite early going to the Philippines before it became like a real surf destination and everyone suddenly is going there and you go there and you’re in the arse and and no and then they actually do have Indigenous Tattoo styles. Also when I was in Borneo as well luckily you’re still being practiced. Well top of it. The thing is they’re still in practice but they’re almost extinct. One person. Yeah there’s one like in the Philippines last year and she’s doing it and then it takes like like a white dude laughs last crew tack to go there and then do a small documentary series and then he sparks the interest in the village for other people. He’s like Why aren’t you guys learning from our kids.

You know she’s not gonna be around I think she’s like 102 if she doesn’t pass on the knowledge she had last one and this is what we’re saying about mean it’s gone and that’s the importance of exactly what I was saying of me wanting to. Teach the other kid hand poked tattoo not you. I’m not the last person but it’s still it’s important to pass on the knowledge that you’ve accumulated because otherwise that knowledge is gone.

Yes. And then we then play with age like well if he hadn’t bothered to go there and do it like that whole tattoo culture would be dead. Where is actually the killings stuff’s actually getting a bit of a revival. People are into it. I’m not saying he’s single handedly revived killing tattooing but before he was doing the books on photography and this appeared like going and doing it. I didn’t see anything on it too you know.

I mean and he and this comes back. This thing of like wasn’t it wasn’t the show he did a show where he’d go around places to hunt and he’d kind of yeah fine. He still must to do certain things like to get to a quote unquote traditional tattoo from the place so he’d maybe have to tough it out or do whatever they would maybe traditionally do that was linked to the tattooing rite of passage a reason why they were doing it exactly. But then a lot of people would obviously call that cultural appropriation and say he shouldn’t be getting that tattoo even though he’s still doing something that he’s not from there. So if you’re not from nation you can’t do it. I would say it’s not you shouldn’t it’s that you’re not allowed to do it. Yeah. And if anyone say what you’re allowed to do and what you’re not. Yeah you go. You will love travelling you go or all around the world and you do all these things you know like tattooing in Japan say for example they’ve got an ancient traditional mor linked with the I knew you indigenous people like on the north I think on Hokkaido or maybe wherever but they’ve got that so.

But for people that don’t know you know the Japanese tattooing is been banned at certain times and come back and been banned but like as far as I’m concerned probably the best or if not certainly from my point of view the best tattoo artist in the world especially who are working without machines as far as just the quality of the work and stuff come from Japan but you’re not even allowed to tattoo in Japan and there’s all these weird laws about it and then that’s actually right now and now over the last few years someone actually finally took know took it to core and I essentially won and so it’ll be really interesting to see what’s going to happen over that. And yet with all these traditional practices and stuff that’s that was a long chat. But that was something I want to get into which we’ve kind of gotten into. But like we said maybe we’ll do one with Mike about that seeing as he can really represent.

We’ve got quite a few Maori friends we’ve got a few people say also say we had large our Peter talking about it I mean he’s the kind of he’s a white German dude who’s Yeah he spent an prison and then love from the ties works with the Thais is highly respected by the Thais Yeah. So if they’re invited on but they’re not white you know you again you just get these things where like I did a Thai sat style tatty that’s an exact duplication of sack under a monk did like 600 years ago or something and some person would then come and be like the genuine I find when people are gonna get shitty that they start with like respectfully that’s like the thing I respectfully ask you to not do something. Yeah I respectfully ask don’t do this without asking about it and they’re like oh well this saggy pants not technically accurate and I was like okay but I know it’s technically accurate or I know it’s accurate enough some camp masters for them to use it and that where the origins of the design came from so you know earn some points for that are sometimes talks people sometimes like you know I just can’t hear it right now you know. Waste of time yeah. It’s just gonna be waste time arguing you’re just going to end up being rude and offensive.

So yeah well we’ll try and get some specialists in. Yeah he’s obviously the most interesting people to hear talk about these things are the people who are kind of the people who spend their life devoted their lives to it or who have these special connections like like with Mike because Mike is actually on his family lineage on his Maori side through his mom the hacker that the All Blacks do because there’s multiple hackers for you know to really briefly and Mike can obviously explain this they’ll probably call you Come on how much they hackers. Yeah the come say hacker. I sat down with Mike because I was doing and at the time just not not even like you know relate it’s Pistache work stuff we were doing some t shirts for him with the actual mocha which is the face tattoos I think from his tribe but all of that say that his tribal lineage actually goes to that committee hacker which is that which is the hacker because hackers there’s more obviously more than one hacker but it’s the one that the All Blacks traditionally do before the matches and he’s actually for a while and with another Maori guy that we know Springer. He the two of them together were basically going round into all types of businesses and kind of I guess unlike kind of they still if you go to a Maori dash hacker dot com okay there’s their work you know we made it in our website and we work with those guys I haven’t read about it I think it’s actually on in French.

I think if you click you know Google can translate it into English program give you the best translation.

It’s super interesting because on. He has luck and you know not only is it his family lineage his tribal lineage even his all black lineage all of that stuff but he is going around teaching it for like kind of almost What’s that stuff like group bonding kind of like in is team building sort of thing so he’s going around teaching it. So obviously any almost anyone and everyone is interested in it.

So I guess it’s a bit like say without interviews people have been saying oh well you know from our Indigenous heritage that if you see I’m super psyched if I see anyone who’s got anything like Corelli and finish related going on. Just like other interested in our culture I find that yeah. Like you said the modified alien if they’ve modified in some way I’m like why would I give a shit. I just don’t take it personally. Like you said I’m saying other people shouldn’t take it personally or have their point of view. I’m just like oh I’m just interested in someone doing something.

Why would you why would you not be happy if someone’s interested in light where you come from or something like like when I looked at cultural appropriation definition we’ll have to go back into the definitions I looked at the basic ones didn’t serve it very well.

And now I think the only thing that made sense and made it a negative thing is if you’re doing something that if you’re from a dominant culture and you’re doing something like wearing like a head dress of a culture or some kind of clothing or a culture you’re suppressing and you’re using that acts to suppress them obviously is ultra negative is negative and that’s the only market that’s the negative side of it.

I could understand but I’m like Well not all of the you know a white girl wearing a Chinese dress to her prom. I don’t think she’s trying to suppress Asian culture.

It’s celebrating the culture she’s using it an ultra positive way in an ultra positive situation. Yeah. Which is super important.

And it’s like you then get to the point it’s like who made it and sold it to her. I think it’s quite likely if it’s a Chinese dress it’s probably made in China or Chinese Asian or person in Europe even maybe.

Yeah I was thinking if it’s that or in America everything is made in China anyway so yeah sure. Chances are it’s Chinese dress it’s been made in China. Either way we’re not gonna worry about percentages of that but you’re like well a Chinese person made it here the Chinese style and they intentionally sold it to her. Is that really something that she should be. I think she’s also a high school prom she’s like 16 or something. Yeah I mean you get the high bully mentality of this show. So I like bullshit but yeah.

So that would definitely be a yeah that would be one which we’ve delved into a little bit. We’ll we’ll we’ll go into and we may be and do it multiple parts and do one with my.

Can do what is going to come up new kinds of things that we’re doing when we’re talking about hip hop obviously.

Oh yeah. Oh really come into it and then you’ve got you know like well I heard why actually preparation.

Like when I was looking at definitions they got to the point where like Well there’s certain things that don’t fit the people people’s own sort of narrative when they’re saying they’re like oh but it doesn’t apply to food or something saying I and it’s like right that’s just because of that because you like it in Asian food. Yeah well because then you cannot possibly say Oh well a Mexican person can’t cook Italian food and serve it in Los Angeles right. You know like you’re saying you can’t do that. And it’s like no one can do it becoming so complicated that then it’s like well then there’s no culture to preparation it’s like a non valid point. So you then can’t include that because it for me renders the whole thing like non valid. You know you’re and you’re like well we.

You’d end up the only way we could do things is if we get rid of cleaner cars planes everything and we go almost back to the way that we would live in tribally. However many thousand years ago where there was Connecticut you can only Italian food if you’re eating in Italy you’re Italian the person cooking is Italian and they’re Italian ingredients with Italian origin like you know how far back to the origins have to go because it is that you had in person got some blood from somewhere else from North Africa like where exactly where is the Wilkins thing and. Exactly where like you know what is it to be Italian the Mediterranean. You know you start going into the history of things in life said with the Moors. Yeah all of that stuff you know there’s a lot of mixing everyone’s mixed everyone’s got something yeah. And that’s what we were gonna say with the hip hop stuff when we do it with S who is just a straight up you know the classic I guess you could say mixed race where you just got you know that black African and that’s why English. Yeah. And also what kind of effect that’s had on him.

Because I’m sure it’s had an effect and he’s got a really interesting story I won’t go into it but yeah I’ll definitely be one. You know as far as his schooling there’s also the common thing. So right. Yeah we’ll get into that. Yeah yeah. Common rapper yes. Oh it’s against that. He definitely had some some stuff that was going on with regard to like you some of the U.K. rappers and stuff some stuff that was said and stuff. Yeah. Concert about fame mixed race and stuff. Yeah yeah yeah. That people obviously a lot of people took offense like Nick and stop listening to his music and stop listening to his music and Doc Brown I think you know. We did because they were obviously heavily offended by what he said and also it’s sort of thought that he maybe should be looking at his own family tree and I’m sure his young daughters had he done all the different piss tests and then you know exactly how much you know like all of the black population in America how much they’re mixed with nature for me.

There’s no fans like Charles Barkley have some real competition to see who who is the most black girls I handled with them had huge amounts of Native American.

The comment was the result. But look at Snoop. Yeah yeah yeah yeah exactly. Features body shape all types of things it kind of makes you maybe think at least that would be that. So yeah.

So that’s the episode 1. Hope everyone enjoyed it. And yeah any kind of comments about what we’ve been doing here what you what you like what you didn’t like. Yeah. And again you know if you could share this with your friends family on social pages even you know if there’s people out there you hate what they think I like it. You know we’re trying to build an audience. So yeah anything’s appreciate and yeah definitely if you can subscribe on your podcast app or subscribe on YouTube.

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